Defenses against Blasphemy?

[Infiniti2000]

Blasphemy is the number one reason I hate the "PCs can't be Evil" house rule most people seem to use.
It loosely translates to: "I'm gonna hit you with a Karma Bead-enhanced Blasphemy in the surprise round just as the party walks through the door...Bwahahaha!"

Not only way off-topic, but that is a really far-fetched reason. I don't ever recall anyone not allowing Evil PCs for the sole reason of using 3.5 blasphemy.

Back on topic, although I didn't normalize the spells and didn't explicitly point out the deafness difference, I did nerf blasphemy by allowing a Will save to raise the target's "category" by one. I'm also looking for ideas to remove the dependency on HD (I hated the limit on 12 in 3E as well). My 14th-level PC doesn't even bother with holy word or dictum because of the chances of finding a 14HD or less opponent that I'd want to use a 7th-level spell on is slim to none. I mean, he can't even affect a CR 4 but HD15 undead (advance a wyvern zombie by 1HD). It's a stupidly designed and then redesigned spell.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It's a stupidly designed and then redesigned spell.

It probably ought to be brought in line with the Power Word spells in some way (although bizarrely it is at the same time much more powerful and a little less powerful than them).

Although putting power words into enchantment school seemed like a pretty numb-brain move in 3.5e, since the ubiquitous mind blank simply stops them dead now.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'm not convinced about the usefulness of these options...

1. Well, if you're a 15th+ level cleric...
2. OK if you are a cleric
3. OK if you are a cleric (no love for arcane casters in this defensive arena, note!)

Hmm. for arcane casters: 3.5 Blink. 50% miss chance for the spell unless it's transdimensional. The archer solution can work for arcane casters too. If the arcanist is more than 40 feet from the rest of the party, odds are someone will get left out.

4. Fine for an archer, doesn't help anyone else

If the archer kills the creature that is using blasphemy, it's a pretty big help. If the archer then readies an action and disrupts the next blasphemy attempt, it's even better.

5. Can counterspell stop an area affect? I thought it was just targetted spells

I'm not quite clear on this though I lean to the "only targeted spells" school. However, both the greater ring of counterspells (MIC version) and the ring of spell battle both allow for immediate action counterspells (ordinary counterspelling).

6. So you spend your entire time standing there just in case? When you're readying you're not doing anything else!

Not very effective--but not bad if you are particularly vulnerable to the effect (for instance, if you're several levels lower than the rest of the party) and you figure that the opponent might have limited uses of the spell or might decide to do something different in following rounds.

7. I'm not sure where this comes from but it has the same problem as 6

Not quite. A marshal readying a grant move action only costs the party one action and it preserves all of the rest of the party's actions on the next round. In some cases, that round of actions--effectively unopposed except for a largely ineffectual blasphemy--may be enough to win the battle.

8. Bardic music: Inspire greatness. Two temporary hit dice may be enough to boost your level to the point where your hit dice are higher than the blasphemer's caster level. (It worked for my character in one Living Greyhawk mod back when APL 18 was still pre-retirement levels).

All told, I think blasphemy--and to a lesser degree, the other similar spells--are heinously broken and need a redesign or simply need elimination. But there are some defenses and when you're playing a game that doesn't houserule it, it's important to explore what those defenses could be.

 

[Ealli]

I suppose I'll go ahead and provide the context in spoiler tags...

Spoiler

In Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, there are lots of things that seriously stretch credulity (almost to the degree of the old Castle Zagyg module), but it looks fun enough to run. So far, the party has had fun plane-hopping and bumping into demons portrayed in a sort of banal and cartoonish manner, more snarky and petty than unspeakably evil. This is really driven home in the party's trip to Zelatar, the capital city of Graz'zt, where moments after the party's arrival a hezrou decides these adventurers would make fine additions to his stable of slaves.

They're 9th level. Without blasphemy, they'd punt him through the nearest viper tree, but with it he'll likely make good on his intentions.

Since we just passed that encounter, here's a quick summary on how we survived.

Spoiler

First and foremost, our primary fighter is a Warforged Juggernaut and the ruling was that he was immune to the Blasphemy effects. Now that I look it up, I can't find the exact immunities, but for good or ill, that was the ruling. Okay, onto advice that will be more applicable.

The DM said that the other slaves did not get involved and demon guards on the road attacked the melee more or less indiscriminantly laughing at the hezrou's misfortune and telling everyone to break it up. The spell-like ability is a standard action so if the hezrou is using it every round, he's getting no closer to winning the battle either. One rather interesting effect of Blasphemy is that extraplanar creatures are Banished back to their home plane. The party is certainly going to be extraplanar so the Blasphemy will blast them all away. The DM simply cut that out so as to not worry about getting the party all reassembled. This would give justification for the hezrou not using Blasphemy though, he would lose access to the slaves."

The Juggernaut then managed a critical hit with a scythe for ~75 damage which dropped the hezrou down to low hitpoints and it failed its massive damage save. I suspect your mileage may vary.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Not only way off-topic, but that is a really far-fetched reason. I don't ever recall anyone not allowing Evil PCs for the sole reason of using 3.5 blasphemy.

Well, it has happened twice in my group. First time one guy had SR and was the only one able to act, and the second time, someone just happened to be 5ft beyond the area of effect and surrendered on the rest of the party's behalf, making a deal to give up a large chunk of treasure as ransom.

And as for D&D as a 'heroic game', 'kill things and take their stuff' nearly always wins out.

As for 'PCs can't be Evil', one of the best games I ever had was when I was the Lawful Evil party leader in a group of mostly Neutral and a couple of Good characters. It was short-lived due to scheduling conflicts, but had very little infighting, much less so than those 'Good' parties that were, say, fighting over the pit fiend's magic boots.

Most of my characters are Lawful Neutral, and written on my character sheet is "Lawful Neutral, because we can't be Evil"

Back on topic, add Will save: Negates or Will save: Partial and all is balanced and fine.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Hmm. for arcane casters: 3.5 Blink. 50% miss chance for the spell unless it's transdimensional. The archer solution can work for arcane casters too. If the arcanist is more than 40 feet from the rest of the party, odds are someone will get left out.

etc...

Good responses, thanks!

 

[Infiniti2000]

I'm not quite clear on this though I lean to the "only targeted spells" school. However, both the greater ring of counterspells (MIC version) and the ring of spell battle both allow for immediate action counterspells (ordinary counterspelling).

Yeah, it is definitely debated as to interpretation. I'm still not sure where I want to come down on it, but I think I've gone the targeted route, too. The problem is that the spells typically come up so seldomly that people are thinking that their rings are not as useful. However, they do load them up with greater dispel magics to avoid the targeted greater dispel magic (Quickened) follow-up by the DC 30+ destruction.

Not very effective--but not bad if you are particularly vulnerable to the effect (for instance, if you're several levels lower than the rest of the party) and you figure that the opponent might have limited uses of the spell or might decide to do something different in following rounds.

I don't understand how this works. Once the spell is assigned an area, it functions (instantaneous). I'd say you cannot ready to move out of the area because until it's already in effect you don't know the area. Of course, you may mean "move away from the rest of the fodder when recognizing (spellcraft) the enemy casting blasphemy." Note, however, that based on the OP's example even that becomes problematic because the blasphemy is a SPA, not a spell. (another argued point about whether spellcraft can discern the SPA as it is 'cast')

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

One thing I am considering for my fighter...

Spellblade weapon ability.

It's a flat cost, I think, but it makes the wielder immune to one - and only one - spell.

 

[Atavar]

This spell came up in my past Shackled City Adventure Path session:

[sblock]In the Shackled City Adventure path adventure "Test of the Smoking Eye" the party just arrived on Occipitus and found a demon (I forget the name...the toad-like demons) attacking a woman (a new party member for the player whose old character died in the previous adventure). The demon used blashpemy. He dazed and weakened two party members and paralyzed a mount (all no save). The two party members then each failed thair Will saves and went hurtling back to the prime plane for 24 hours.[/sblock]

Oddly, I had to make a ruling about where the banished party members went precisely. Do they arrive back on the prime plane wherever they want? In a totally random location? At the last location there were at before leaving the prime plane? 5-500 miles from their last location or a desired location, similar to plane shift? I ended up ruling that each of them arrived at the same location each of them were last at before leaving the prime plane.

Later,

Atavar

 

[mvincent]

the creature is dazed and loses 2d6 Strength. Chaining blasphemies up, the PC's will all be on their backs within three rounds.

It appears that the strength penalties would not stack since it is not actual str damage and the rules say:
"In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies."