D&D 5E Defensive Duelist fix?

[DND_Reborn]

One thing I have noticed about power gamers - that are far more interested in boosting damage than boosting defence.

LOL that is a nice assumption you're making.

How about making it a feat actually worth taking? Considering how few feats most PCs get (about 3, considering how long the games run) and the competition between ASI and feats, feats are too valuable for something like this--there are better ones out there (both for flavor and mechanics).

And, FYI, MAM and HAM are two of the most popular feats at our tables and are defensive. In fact, we've only had two PCs ever take GWM or SS, both run by the same player, who admittedly is a power-gamer. Most of our players aren't.

 

[Seramus]

I feel like what I meant by “a chance to miss” was pretty damn clear. Please don’t nitpick.

I think including an attack roll and rolling damage violates the KISS rule and slows the game down for no real gain. There are already a few things that include off-turn attack rolls, and I discourage adding more to avoid combat bloat.

 

[Iry]

One thing I have noticed about power gamers - that are far more interested in boosting damage than boosting defence.

I'm a hardcore powergamer and I have a completely different take. It's not a popular one. Combat is... not important.

You're probably going to win. You're going to win the majority of the time. As long as you have a medium capacity to contribute to combat, only a few combats are going to be true do-or-die / campaign changing fights.

A few extra points of damage don't really matter, and smart play can easily make up the difference. Sure, I will throw a fireball here or there, but using my resources for the Exploration and Social Pillars usually gets much better results.

DM results may vary, of course.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm a hardcore powergamer and I have a completely different take. It's not a popular one. Combat is... not important.

You're probably going to win. You're going to win the majority of the time. As long as you have a medium capacity to contribute to combat, only a few combats are going to be true do-or-die / campaign changing fights.

A few extra points of damage don't really matter, and smart play can easily make up the difference. Sure, I will throw a fireball here or there, but using my resources for the Exploration and Social Pillars usually gets much better results.

DM results may vary, of course.

One of the things I tend to find is that if have strong combat abilities the dm tends to throw stronger stuff at you. One of the best things to do is to have strong combat abilities but rarely use them optimally.

Speaking of combat, you are probably going to win... but you are probably not going to die in any other part of the game. So...

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm glad you like it. Why waste time in a thread where other people are discussing how to fix it for their group, who obviously disagree with you? That's rhetorical. There is no good reason. Please stop.

I'd rather the damage have a chance to miss, and involve rolling for damage.

Just a reminder - By saying it sucked in the OP you opened your thread up to those kinds of posts.

 

[FrogReaver]

How strong would it be if on a successful use of defensive duelist you added your proficiency bonus to damage against that enemy the next turn?

 

[Stoutstien]

I'm a hardcore powergamer and I have a completely different take. It's not a popular one. Combat is... not important.

You're probably going to win. You're going to win the majority of the time. As long as you have a medium capacity to contribute to combat, only a few combats are going to be true do-or-die / campaign changing fights.

A few extra points of damage don't really matter, and smart play can easily make up the difference. Sure, I will throw a fireball here or there, but using my resources for the Exploration and Social Pillars usually gets much better results.

DM results may vary, of course.

Agreed. Optimizing for damage is rarely, if ever, worth the opportunity cost(s).

 

[TwoSix]

One of the things I tend to find is that if have strong combat abilities the dm tends to throw stronger stuff at you. One of the best things to do is to have strong combat abilities but rarely use them optimally.

Speaking of combat, you are probably going to win... but you are probably not going to die in any other part of the game. So...

Which is why deep powergaming optimizes not only the character build, but the metagame assumptions around the DM's playstyle. Losing a character isn't much of a setback if the DM lets you make a new character with the same levels and number of magic items, so by all means, play a glass cannon build. If losing a character would be a major setback, than optimize towards defense and out of combat utility.

 

[Iry]

One of the things I tend to find is that if have strong combat abilities the dm tends to throw stronger stuff at you. One of the best things to do is to have strong combat abilities but rarely use them optimally.

We call it the Voltron Sword, since the power combos only get pulled out after getting beat up or when things look dire.

Speaking of combat, you are probably going to win... but you are probably not going to die in any other part of the game. So...

That's definitely true, but it's often a self fulfilling prophecy. You die in a fight because you failed the social challenge with the thieves guild, or failed to avoid the orc army patrol, or pissed off the guards with general murderhobo'ing and couldn't talk your way out of it.

Of course, people like fighting and it's important to have fun when you do. D&D is half wargame. But +2 DPR is rarely as impactful as a good exploration / social roll.

 

[FrogReaver]

Which is why deep powergaming optimizes not only the character build, but the metagame assumptions around the DM's playstyle. Losing a character isn't much of a setback if the DM lets you make a new character with the same levels and number of magic items, so by all means, play a glass cannon build. If losing a character would be a major setback, than optimize towards defense and out of combat utility.

Agree to some degree. But losing a character still sucks. There’s personal attachment and all.