Deities and Demigods ~ Thank You God!

[rounser]

I seriously can't believe WotC put this out before MM2.

Agreed.

Deities & Demigods may as well have been called Fluff & Ephemera for it's usefulness relative to a Monster Manual 2, which is a book the system actually needs, rather than just a book for dreaming about D&D by wowing at god stats and pictures.

I thought WotC was aiming for stuff for gamers rather than those who like dreaming about games that will never be. Between Manual of the Planes, the Epic Level Handbook and Deities & Demigods, WotC's plans for the game truly seem to be divorced from catering for your average campaign, which needs god stats as often as a fish needs a parachute.

 

[Nightfall]

Re: I Hate to say this folks...

Instead I bought the newest issue of Dungeon magazine, and the newest module from the Scarred Lands (forgot the name, but it got a "supurb" review, and I run a SL campaign).

There's a Scarred Land Module!? Hmm JD/Dru must have not mentioned this one. Are you SURE you didn't get the Scarred Lands Dm's Screen? Or perhaps something more like Secrets and Societies?

 

[jasamcarl]

Uh

Yes, but the theory would be those who would find some use for these book REALLY want them, so in the aggregate, Wotc would find greater profitability in these niche products; of course that is only one possibility.

If i were to take a guess, i would say the choice of what to publish when relates to the specifics of Wotc's production strategy.

Regardless, i trust Wizards to act in their own best interest and have better access to the facts to do so than (self) interested board cruisers who have a minimal grasp on the market....

 

[Nightfall]

must...not...flame...munchkin...realms...fans...

Yes please. It would be nice for a change.

 

[Grazzt]

I thought WotC was aiming for stuff for gamers rather than those who like dreaming about games that will never be.

That's a rather "interesting" statement. I would imagine there will be plenty of gamers that use the god's stats. There are plenty of gamers that will use both god's stats and the rules forthcoming in the ELH.

Hell, I can think of one right now that will use the DDG stats ASAP, right Krusty?

 

[rounser]

Regardless, i trust Wizards to act in their own best interest and have better access to the facts to do so than (self) interested board cruisers who have a minimal grasp on the market....

No doubt that's what they're doing, and I never stated that they weren't doing the right thing to meet their commercial goals.

That doesn't stop me from pointing out that I consider the book of very questionable utility, and more a book for D&D dreamers than most D&D gamers.

I won't be buying it, but if others doing so keeps WotC afloat then so much the better. It would be nice if they could have released something practical that would also meet their sales targets in it's place, though.

 

[rounser]

I would imagine there will be plenty of gamers that use the god's stats.

In my experience, the track record of actual application of the old D&DG in past 1E campaigns suggests otherwise.

Maybe the ELH will help change this, but apart from beating on the occasional Demon Lord I've found that there hasn't been much use for god stats in the past, in the games I've seen.

I'm not speaking for your games though, perhaps you beat upon gods daily.

 

[The Serge]

1. "Demon" and "devil" are still entirely inseparable from the "tanar'ri" and "baatezu" names, and the Blood War, unfortunately, is still canon.

2. Despite the ceaseless grumbling of Planescape fans, the Great Wheel detailed in the MotP is much closer to that setting than the original MotP. Sigil is referenced and the Lady of Pain is still around.
Most of the Planescape titles for planes are still retained, such as Celestia, Bytopia, Ysgard, etc.
"Yugoloth", rather than "daemon" (as it should have been), was used.
The Lords of the Nine concept from 2nd Edition, despite being inferior to the 1st Edition material, was retained.

I do agree with you on some of these points. Many third party publishers (like Fast Foward Entertainment and the folks who put out Demonology) use demon and devil interchangeably. I'm assuming they do so to appeal to a larger market of people who may not be as integrally involved with 1ed concepts.

I also disagreed with the idea that Devils and Demons were just another race (a concept that DDG still clings to... they are "mortal") and that we need to have a "race" for every plane and so on...

I also agree that some elements of the Lords of the Nine were a bit strange when the concept was introduced in Planescape.

However, I think the Lords of the Nine, when Planescape had run its course, were pretty cool. I've always been of the opinion that the Archdevils should be of greater power and significance than 1ed suggested, and Planescape usually did just that. Plus, I love the name... sounds more regal....

As for the Lady of Pain, while I think her name's far too aggressive, I like the concept of her floating around occasionally, as well as the idea that this is where the Planes connect. There was very little information on the Concordant Opposition (from my sorry memory) in 1ed and this really provided some interesting material.

 

[Aaron L]

I wanted the ELH before D&Dg too. As for Demons and Devils being immortal, I am giving all Demon Pronces, Archdevils, and the like Divine Rank 1. I am using Tanar'ri and Baatzu as clan and House names for Demons and Devils, respectively. I am going to make up other Demon Clans and Devil Houses that will be at war with the Tanar'ri and Baatzul, I just need to make some other demons and devils as well!

PS, I like the term Yugoloth better than Daemon. Daemon reminds me of the 2E method of spelling a traditional monster name differently and making a new monster out of it. Goblins and Goblyns? Besides, Yugoloth has a certain Lovecraftian feel to it that I have always ascribed to them...

 

[Grazzt]

I'm not speaking for your games though, perhaps you beat upon gods daily.

Actually, I have never used god's stats in any of my games (even in 1e). Just like having them handy if I ever need them.

Alorel (my campaign) is dark fantasy (combo of Elric meets Witchworld) and the gods are quite active (though not directly). They are active on the Planes through their agents and proxies.

But, as I said, I do know one person who will use them most likely....Upper Krust.