Delayed Blast Fireball?

[MacMathan]

Does this spell seem like a bit of a waste of a 7th level slot in 3.5 to anyone else? I mean back in 1E/2E you needed the time to delay to get out of the huge blast area. In 3E it at least did d8's instead of d6's. In 3.5 it just seems completely inferior to anything else at its level.

Any ideas on how to make it a worthy 7th level spell again?

 

[Coredump]

Well, it is basically a maximized Fireball; so that would be 6th level. If you consider the delay ability to be equal to a +1 level metamagic, it is all good.


And in 3E it was still d6...

.

 

[FireLance]

Plus, the saving throw DC goes up by +4, so it's like a heightened (+4), maximized (+3) fireball (3rd), which would usually occupy a 10th-level slot.

That aside, we should be comparing it against other 7th-level spells in the new edition, not against its old effects in the previous editions. Would you say that it is weak compared to the other 7th-level Sor/Wiz spells?

 

[MacMathan]

I am probably missing something obvious but how is it Maximized? At level 13 I can cast it at 13d6 (avg 45.5pts) vs 60pts for the level 6 maximized fireball version it does not catch up until after level 17.

As far as other spells go for damage there is Cone of Cold at level 5 that could be empowered to a 7th level effect for more damage. It seems like Circle of Death at 6th level is better against multiple foes while Disentigrate is more damaging to a single target or any of the "save or Die type effects"

As far as other 7th level spells on average Prismatic Spray is much more effective it seems.

I was thinking about giving it maybe some sort of knockdown or blinding effect.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Well, it is basically a maximized Fireball; so that would be 6th level. If you consider the delay ability to be equal to a +1 level metamagic, it is all good.


And in 3E it was still d6...

.

Not maximised, although it is better than empowered (since it does up to 20d6 damage) and still has a timer fuse. It is less effective than empowered fireball at the level you get it, but from 15th level onwards it is as good (apart from the extra spell levels of course).

Is the delay worth +2 levels? I don't think so. There can be only a handful of situations where it is useful (leaving a parting gift before teleporting away, stacking up a whole lot of fireballs to go off when a timestop ends, creating the bead and giving it to unsuspecting mules popping it into the mouths of held people, dropping it as a bomb while flying?).

I suppose that empowerd up to a 9th level spell would be quite nasty, doing 30d6 to everyone within the spread.

Definitely not worth it now though.

 

[Plane Sailing]

And in 3E it was still d6...

Yup.

It was d8's back in earlier editions, but d6's all the way in 3e

 

[Staffan]

Yup.

It was d8's back in earlier editions, but d6's all the way in 3e

Actually, this is wrong in two ways.

1: Earlier editions (at least 2e) used d6+1 per level for delayed blast fireball (IIRC, the book said something like "does damage like a fireball, but with +1 damage per die"), not d8s.

2: The first printing of the 3.0 PHB had DBF do d8s of damage, but this was errataed.

 

[MacMathan]

I missed the 3E errata on that. Any how, it does not seem like the d8 or the +1 damage per die really pushed it over the top yet it was removed for some reason. I guess I just have never really had a use for the delay timer.

 

[Plane Sailing]

2: The first printing of the 3.0 PHB had DBF do d8s of damage, but this was errataed.

Interesting!

My memory said 3e had d8's for delayed blast fireball but I don't have my old PHB handy to check and the 3e SRD copy I had said d6's, but now you mention it I *do* remember. I knew there had been d8's at one time and due to a stupid memory trick I assumed that since it wasn't 3e (by the 3e SRD) it must have been a memory from an earlier version.

So thanks for the correction.

Cheers

 

[Grayhawk]

Actually, this is wrong in two ways.

1: Earlier editions (at least 2e) used d6+1 per level for delayed blast fireball (IIRC, the book said something like "does damage like a fireball, but with +1 damage per die"), not d8s.

2: The first printing of the 3.0 PHB had DBF do d8s of damage, but this was errataed.

DBF did 1d6+1 per level in both 1st and 2nd edition AD&D.

The second printing of the 3.0 PHB listed DBF as doing d8/level in the short description at the beginning of the spell listings (p.170), but in the spell write up itself it said d6/level (p.191).