D&D (2024) Fireball/Lightning Bolt vs Chromatic Orb?

[Zardnaar]

You asked for a better -damaging- spell at 1st or 2nd level. I worked within those limitations to demonstrate that there are other options that are better. You didn't ask for "What combos best with Chromatic Orb?"

Especially since you can cast Flaming Sphere, smack someone, block a door, and then cast Chromatic Orb or other spells on the following turns.

If Flaming Sphere is maintained for its duration, it is capable of exponentially more damage than Chromatic Orb can do with a 2nd level slot. It also hits more targets, and can do environmental damage, continuously. Is there a tavern or other wooden structure you would prefer not be there, anymore? Flaming Sphere will reduce it to rubble in 10 minutes or less!

You've found your evil wizard BBEG's tower of knowledge? Bye-Bye spellbooks and historical research beyond what you need to take with you, making it impossible for him to ever know what you stole!

Pretty sure there's a goblin hiding in a haystack? MUAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

Anyway, yeah. Flaming Sphere can potentially hit many many more targets, damages objects you need it to, blocks doors and spaces, and lasts a relatively long time in D&D Turn Based Combat in smaller environments. (Obviously it's not great for overland travel pre-casting or anything, but still!)

Fkaming spheres good but combats usually over fast (2-3 rounds). Front loading damage tends to be better than over time.

 

[Steampunkette]

Fkaming spheres good but combats usually over fast (2-3 rounds). Front loading damage tends to be better than over time.

Ehhhh... That's one way to look at it.

If you're in a combat designed to last 3 rounds, the enemy is going to be able to take 3 rounds of getting hit by your entire party. Sure, it's a thing that you can target-drive a given enemy into the ground, but by the time the third character gets to them they're going to have, like, 5hp left and you're "Wasting your Turn" or "Wasting a Good Spell" if you hit them with anything big.

So drop a flaming sphere on their head for that last 5hp and then start using it as a bonus action each turn to slap the next character and use your other spells, too. And sometimes it's better in those situations to hit with a middling damage attack on your turn and let someone else nova them the rest of the way down.

Especially if you're in a situation where you're likely to face multiple combat encounters one after another... like Dungeons.

There's also the issue of blowing your magical payload on fights. If you drop all your nova on your first fight of the day and have nothing but cantrips for all following encounters you're going to be in a world of hurt. Or at least really annoyed.

 

[mellored]

Especially since you can cast Flaming Sphere, smack someone, block a door,

Flaming Sphere doesn't block movement. You can run right though it without an issue.

Cloud of Daggers would be better for that, or if you have a target immobilized.

If you have a group, then rolling the Sphere can hit multiple targets at a time, and avoid allies.

 

[Steampunkette]

Flaming Sphere doesn't block movement. You can run right though it without an issue.

Cloud of Daggers would be better for that, or if you have a target immobilized.

If you have a group, then rolling the Sphere can hit multiple targets at a time, and avoid allies.

You run right through it and take 2d6 damage. Then it smacks you in the back of the head for another 2d6 on my turn. It doesn't block movement, but it blocks movement of anything with self-preservation instincts.

You cannot roll the sphere to hit multiple targets in a turn. Once it runs into someone it stops, and they have to stay standing next to it at the end of their turn (or move through it) to take another 2d6. But that does make it an excellent tool for forcing enemy movement. Take 2d6 or provoke, for example. Or forcing them to get away from the cleric by dropping a rolling bonfire on them.

Cloud of Daggers is also a fun option, for sure. But it only hits a 5ft square, requires your action to move it to a new location, and only lasts for 1 minute, making it less effective overall. Still... minimum of 4 maximum of 16 is pretty nice compared to 2 and 12.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ehhhh... That's one way to look at it.

If you're in a combat designed to last 3 rounds, the enemy is going to be able to take 3 rounds of getting hit by your entire party. Sure, it's a thing that you can target-drive a given enemy into the ground, but by the time the third character gets to them they're going to have, like, 5hp left and you're "Wasting your Turn" or "Wasting a Good Spell" if you hit them with anything big.

So drop a flaming sphere on their head for that last 5hp and then start using it as a bonus action each turn to slap the next character and use your other spells, too. And sometimes it's better in those situations to hit with a middling damage attack on your turn and let someone else nova them the rest of the way down.

Especially if you're in a situation where you're likely to face multiple combat encounters one after another... like Dungeons.

There's also the issue of blowing your magical payload on fights. If you drop all your nova on your first fight of the day and have nothing but cantrips for all following encounters you're going to be in a world of hurt. Or at least really annoyed.

I like Flaming Sphere and similar spells where you just drop them and spam cantrips.

Other contender are things like bless, dragons breath, faerie fire, cloud of Daggers. Good enough and low enough level to gave an effect.

Newer players tend to burn their spells faster IME.

High level COs more tactical generally been used when the chances are high. Cleric players using guiding bolt tend to figure that out fast. Old joke here about guiding bolt and action surge missing a lot.

 

[ezo]

FWIW, I ran the numbers with Level-6 CO vs. Chain Lightning.

Once again, unless you have special considerations (resistance to lightning, a series of targets spread out, more than 4 targets), Chain Lightning yields better damage than a 6th-level CO. Generally, you also need a fairly high attack percentage for any sort of decent results. While you can certain build for this (as others have posted), however.

 

[Zardnaar]

FWIW, I ran the numbers with Level-6 CO vs. Chain Lightning.

View attachment 396201

Once again, unless you have special considerations (resistance to lightning, a series of targets spread out, more than 4 targets), Chain Lightning yields better damage than a 6th-level CO. Generally, you also need a fairly high attack percentage for any sort of decent results. While you can certain build for this (as others have posted), however.

It's how I discovered CO. People were comparing it to Chain lightning. I thought they were joking but lo and behold it was close.

I'm thinking it's the missing piece for a level 3 boom spell for other damage types. CO and Dragons Breath take care of lvl 1 &2.

I'm seeing early attempts to build around it. They haven't put all the pieces togather and some others here are suggesting things I missed.

Eg shadow touched, elven accuracy, seeking, empower is sounding good.

 

[mellored]

You run right through it and take 2d6 damage.

Where does it say that?

Cloud of Daggers will deal 4d4.

 

[mellored]

It's how I discovered CO. People were comparing it to Chain lightning. I thought they were joking but lo and behold it was close.

I think the fact that it's close makes it a great option if you want to prepare other spells.

CO can cover level 1 to level 6 (possibly higher), all the damage types, for only 1 preparation.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think the fact that it's close makes it a great option if you want to prepare other spells.

CO can cover level 1 to level 6 (possibly higher), all the damage types, for only 1 preparation.

Yeah it's also pick your damage type. Dragon get that and command as freebies.

In use it's getting close to FB and LB for frost/acid/poison.

If I get the chance to play myself I'm thinking acid sorcerer. Or energy transmutation scorching ray+fireball.

I keep sering lighning probably due to cool factor, lightning bolt and Fireballs limitations.