D&D (2024) Fireball/Lightning Bolt vs Chromatic Orb?

[FrogReaver]

Worth noting that for spread out enemies CO is probably going to be able to get more targets then fireball will. Being able to jump 30ft after every target could mean that the 1st and 4th target are 90ft away from each other as an example.

We would probably have to see how often those situations come up in actual play. It's a shame the wording of Distant spell metamagic wouldn't effect the bounce ranges, because that would make things way more interesting in that regard.

I think the ability to leap to cover larger areas can mean there will be many situations where it can hit more targets than fireball. That’s interesting.

Gives it an additional niche use.

 

[mellored]

Flaming Sphere.

Possibly.
You might be better off using Web on turn one, and CO the next.

5) Because you use a bonus action to move it, you can still cast spells with your action.

Yes, but you can do that with CO on other turns too.

Also, FS takes multiple turns to deal damage. Possibly leaving the enemy alive am extra xturn when you could of killed it with CO earlier.


If you have a large target that won't drop quickly, possibly with legendary resistance, then FS looks better.

 

[Zardnaar]

Just played a game where one of the party was a halfling wild magic sorcerer who used CO as his main offensive spell in any big fights. He would use Tides of Chaos to give himself advantage on the attack roll. Combined with his halfling's Luck trait, he was able to hit more often than not with the initial attack. If he failed to roll a double on the damage dice he would use Empowered Spell to reroll 3 of the damage dice. This meant it bounced more often than not. He was then able to use his Lucky origin feat to give himself advantage on that attack.

Overall it was a very effective spell* and, as we were only 3rd level, probably the best offensive option for dealing with multiple foes.

*made more effective by the player's uncanny luck in rolling nat 20's on the attack rolls, making the spell do double damage and also increasing the chances of it bouncing.

Interesting didn't think about rerolls at level 1 or a wild magic Sorcerer.

30+% bouncing at level 1.

 

[Zardnaar]

So, it's really good if...

You do this
You to that
You have something
You blah blah blah.

I'm glad it works well for you, but again this is a Sorcerer built option, with Luck, and Tides of Chaos, and Empowered Spell.

If you need that much to make a spell a good option, odds are under "normal circumstances" it isn't a great spell.

Very easy to get and pull off situations. A lot of it is class options.

I'm leaning towards situationally better than fireball but Sorcerer might make it better than fireball.

 

[ezo]

@ezo

Your new 95% single target should be 22.5. The other single target values seem correct.

It was an error in the formula because it was counting misses (0.05) as crits (0.05) LOL.

It affected all the 95% numbers. Both posts have been updated. Thanks.

 

[ezo]

Worth noting that for spread out enemies CO is probably going to be able to get more targets then fireball will. Being able to jump 30ft after every target could mean that the 1st and 4th target are 90ft away from each other as an example.

We would probably have to see how often those situations come up in actual play. It's a shame the wording of Distant spell metamagic wouldn't effect the bounce ranges, because that would make things way more interesting in that regard.

Yep. I commented on this upthread.

Very easy to get and pull off situations. A lot of it is class options.

I'm leaning towards situationally better than fireball but Sorcerer might make it better than fireball.

While perhaps easy to get and pull off, CO shines in certain rolls (which have been covered), not in raw damage vs. a spell like fireball, which has its own uses.

A player might also find it more enjoyable to roll for because it is an attack, damage, did it bounce? attack, damage, did it bounce again? etc. as opposed to a fireball which is just a single roll of many dice.

As a DM, I would find the additional rolling and time, etc. a bit annoying, and would prefer a version where on a bounce it did half damage to later targets, no attack roll required. I don't know how the numbers would compare for that, but the "auto-hit" potential isn't foreign to 2024 with the new witch bolt dealing auto-damage on subsquent rounds.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think the ability to leap to cover larger areas can mean there will be many situations where it can hit more targets than fireball. That’s interesting.

Gives it an additional niche use.

Seem that. It's also up to the caster to choose the bounce order.

 

[mellored]

Very easy to get and pull off situations. A lot of it is class options.

I'm leaning towards situationally better than fireball but Sorcerer might make it better than fireball.

Sorcerer can also Empower Fireball.

 

[Zardnaar]

Sorcerer can also Empower Fireball.

Aware but it's not the same as empowering a CO. Empowering a fireball is a few extra points of damage empowering CO can be a lot more damage.

I got bored the other night and tested some rolls. Along with super advantage.

Tested CO bounce effects long time ago.

 

[Steampunkette]

Possibly.
You might be better off using Web on turn one, and CO the next.

Yes, but you can do that with CO on other turns too.

Also, FS takes multiple turns to deal damage. Possibly leaving the enemy alive am extra xturn when you could of killed it with CO earlier.


If you have a large target that won't drop quickly, possibly with legendary resistance, then FS looks better.

You asked for a better -damaging- spell at 1st or 2nd level. I worked within those limitations to demonstrate that there are other options that are better. You didn't ask for "What combos best with Chromatic Orb?"

Especially since you can cast Flaming Sphere, smack someone, block a door, and then cast Chromatic Orb or other spells on the following turns.

If Flaming Sphere is maintained for its duration, it is capable of exponentially more damage than Chromatic Orb can do with a 2nd level slot. It also hits more targets, and can do environmental damage, continuously. Is there a tavern or other wooden structure you would prefer not be there, anymore? Flaming Sphere will reduce it to rubble in 10 minutes or less!

You've found your evil wizard BBEG's tower of knowledge? Bye-Bye spellbooks and historical research beyond what you need to take with you, making it impossible for him to ever know what you stole!

Pretty sure there's a goblin hiding in a haystack? MUAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

Flaming Sphere can potentially hit many many more targets, damages objects you need it to, blocks doors and spaces, and lasts a relatively long time in D&D Turn Based Combat in smaller environments. (Obviously it's not great for overland travel pre-casting or anything, but still!)

If you need someone dealt with right this instant and you have to deal at least 4d8 damage to them in one turn to kill them, then yes Chromatic Orb is absolutely better in that situation. But so is Sleep.