Demonic Lore II

Echohawk

Shirokinukatsukami fan
Ripzerai said:
Way back in Dragon #14, was the 1st edition MM even published? There may not have been a distinction between demons and devils.

Yes. The Monster Manual was released in September 1977 and Dragon #14 followed nine months later in May 1978.
 

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BOZ

Creature Cataloguer
Echohawk said:
Yes. The Monster Manual was released in September 1977 and Dragon #14 followed nine months later in May 1978.

well, that leaves things confusing! :)

Henrix said:
How come I have a slew of Boz threads bookmarked? Oh, right, it's because thay are this good!
Thanks, Boz ;)

heh, you're welcome. :)
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Ripzerai said:
I move that Belistor be designated the 277th layer of the Abyss, if for no other reason than it makes it easy to remember what issue of Dragon it came from. The article itself doesn't seem to say.

Agreed. Excellent suggestions. :cool:
 

Nichols

First Post
More sources of Abyssal information:

Queen of the Demonweb Pits (Novel), by Paul Kidd - Contains descriptions of parts of the Abyss, starting on pg. 163. The descriptions are a bit odd - according to the novel, the 666 layers of the Abyss are arranged around a central pit, with each layer accessable from the sides of the pit with the river Lethe forming a giant waterfall down one side of the pit (sounds somewhat like Baator, but could be a jumbled version of the Grand Abyss).

However, if we ignore this, there's a bit of interesting information here.

Layers described include:

* Arrival Layer (no name given) - A layer that is "a field of ashes" with a dark purple sky through which flying things "wheeled and screamed in heavens that stank of death." The air is "thick, foul" and smoke-filled to the point of obscuring vision (it is called poisonous a couple of times, but this might be metaphorical). More disturbingly, the air "seemed to be made from a pattern of old nightmares - broken, jarred, and clattering like glass." Jagged sprays of glass jut from the landscape like shrubs. There are "locusts made of wormwood and brass" with large stingers that carry acidic poison. Sourceless shadows in the shape of groping skeletons and leering skulls writhe across the ground. The river Lethe (we can assume this should be the Styx, I think) flows through here and is populated by large "skeletal serpents" and "hideous rotting sea serpent" The Lethe is also apparently heated from a geothermal source here, as explosive gesyers go off ever few seconds. Near the river grow viper trees and saw-bladed grass, through which fat maggots crawl.

The heroes literally climb a giant spiderweb to reach the Demonweb Pits from here. Lolth's crawling spider fortress had used the same path earlier. (This web is supposedly strung across the Abyss' central pit, but we'll ignore that for now.)

* The Demonweb Pits - The descriptions of the Demonweb Pits in Queen of the Demonwebs Pits and Fiendish Codex I match *very* closely. The marbled floors of Lolth's Web are mentioned (in the novel, the patterns in the marble form the faces of tormented souls). The heroes even stop in the Nightworld of Vlad Tolenkov. A number of chambers with demon guards, which I believe are straight from the Queen of the Demonweb Pits module, are also described. The world where Lolth's spider-fortress is kept is also described. It is "a bleak plain of windswept obsidian boulders and cracked rivers of volcanic glass." Incredibly fierce rainless lightning storms wrack this place.

The only named demon in the book is Morag, a marilith endentured to serve as Lolth's personal assistant/secretary. She has started the process of ascended by the end of the novel.

Another novel with Abyssal lore is Knight of the Black Rose, from the Ravenloft line. The novel describes Lord Soth's, from Dragonlance, arrival in Ravenloft. Starting on page 23, Soth's ghostly seneschal, Caradoc, journeys across Pazunia (the novel uses that name) to enact a ritual to open a gate to Takhisis' domain. Points to note about Pazunia:

* Pazunia is sometimes subject to brief but violent tornadoes.

* The heat and dust even effects ethereal/incorporeal creatures like ghosts, drenching them in sweat and coating them in dust.

* Sometimes the portals of Pazunia float above the ground (somewhat like a floating portable hole, I imagine).

* The ritual Caradoc uses is thus - "Ten thousand steady paces should be named for each head of [the] chromatic dragon." Then, the supplicant states his name and office, and says, "I seek entrance to the domain of the Queen of Darkness." The ground beneath the supplicant will then crack open and this chasm will act as a portal to Takhisis' domain. Enroute to Takhisis' domain, the supplicant will glimpse a number of Abyssal layers and the denizens of these layers, including demon lords, will become aware of the supplicant's passage.

Of course, we all know that Takhisis actually lives in Baator, so take that with a grain of salt.

While travelling to Takhisis' realm, Caradoc glimpses the following Abyssal layers:

* "a lightless void." (Could be the Swallowed Void or the Black Blizzard)

* "a place of ice." Frozen rain and icy gales fall on cracked floes of ice as fall as can be seen. Occasionally, huge snow-coated pillars of stone breach the ice. Each pillar houses a malevolent entity that manifests as a pair of glowing blue eyes that glare at Caradoc. (Could be a new region of the Iron Wastes or the Ice Floe; or it could be a new layer with new demons - icy disembodied intelligences)

* "a plain of rusting steel." Rival demonic armies clash here (mariliths and dretches vs. a balor and manes). (Don't fit any known layer)

* a quick sucession of layers - "places of darkness and places of light"; "domains of fire, of air, of water"

* "a hot, humid realm... ...filled with dripping, slimy fungus." There are thousand-foot tall mushrooms coated in parasitic albino vines, puddles of gray slime, and purple masses with groping tendrils. Even the ground is spongy and rotten. The realm is completely silent and the odor of decay is incapacitating. A "magnificent but perpetually evil power," a "great being" notices Caradoc's passing. (Probably Shedaklah or a similar layer held by Juiblex or Zuggtmoy)

There also some Abyssal information in The Glass Prison, a Forgotten Realms novel by Monte Cook. I can't seem to find my copy though. Any help?

Chris Nichols
 

Ripzerai

Explorer
Nichols said:
the 666 layers of the Abyss are arranged around a central pit, with each layer accessable from the sides of the pit with the river Lethe forming a giant waterfall down one side of the pit (sounds somewhat like Baator, but could be a jumbled version of the Grand Abyss).

Sounds like the Grand Abyss to me.

* Arrival Layer (no name given) - A layer that is "a field of ashes" with a dark purple sky through which flying things "wheeled and screamed in heavens that stank of death." The air is "thick, foul" and smoke-filled to the point of obscuring vision

Could be Sulfanorum.

* The heat and dust even effects ethereal/incorporeal creatures like ghosts, drenching them in sweat and coating them in dust.

Ghosts in the Outer Planes should become petitioners, though that's just my opinion. Ghosts are, after all, souls who enter the Ethereal instead of travelling to the Outer Planes after they die. If they go back to the Ethereal, they can become ghosts again.

Of course, we all know that Takhisis actually lives in Baator, so take that with a grain of salt.

I suppose it's possible that there's a portal in Pazunia that leads to Abthalom (Takhisis' realm in Baator). If Takhisis desires it, she has the power to make it so.
 

BOZ

Creature Cataloguer
cool - stuff from novels like that may or may not be game canon, but stuff can definitely be lifted either way. :)
 



BOZ

Creature Cataloguer
found this old ref in my PM box, and don't know if i ever included it...

Knightfall1972 said:
Hey Boz,

I've been looking through my Dungeon Magazines and found another named demon in one of them. In Issue #70, the adventure called Kingdom of Ghouls (pg. 62) gives stats for a glabrezu named "Crumhorn".

Later,

KF72
 

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