Design & Development: The Warlock

[Rechan]

Quick request: people have mentioned that paladins for 4E will have alignment restrictions removed. Can someone point me to where that information came from?

From Chris Perkin's Blog:

I had a lot of people approach me with 4E questions. One of the most memorable ones was, "Will 4E have paladins that aren't lawful good?" The answer is yes. Hell, you can have evil paladins of Asmodeus in 4E.

 

[jaldaen]

It seems to me that if WotC went through all the trouble of making the Paladin easily playable by other alignments ("Will 4E have paladins that aren't lawful good?" The answer is yes. Hell, you can have evil paladins of Asmodeus in 4E.")... then why not do the same for Warlocks? I mean the PHB should have the "standard" classes and races in the game and it seems to me that WotC has decided that in the interest of driving home the point that all PHBs, MMs, and DMGs are core that they are holding some of the classes, monters, etc... back to encourage the purchase of these other "core" books. To me the problem isn't with the Warlock being evil, but that its flavor and powers seem to lean evil in a book that should include standard classes that can be played in D&D. I'd be okay with the warlock if they "paladined" it and made a version for the good aligned, but none of the mentioned options seems to lean toward good... and to be honest the special ability "Boon of Souls" would be very difficult to make fit a good alignment. Last, but not least there seems to be only 8 classes in the PHB and with the Warlock taking up one of the slots if a DM wants a good themed game his players will only have 7 classes to really choose from, whereas an evil campaign will have all 8 easily available b/c paladins of evil are in... It just seems counter intuitive to include a class with such heavy alignment flavor in the first PHB. Now if there were a few more classes in the PHB I'd feel differently, but 8 with one leaning evil makes it a bit too slim for my taste. I certainly hope that playtesting proves to result in a more alignment nuetral Warlock, but I'm not certain that will happen.

 

[Rechan]

If alignment is said to play a lesser role in 4E, why the heated discussion over alignment + the Warlock?.

Pick one:
1) D&D is about heroic characters and I don't want a class devoted to Evil in the PHB.
2) I don't want the Warlock class's fluff/power descriptions to be solely tied to evil. It's restrictive.
3) Having Warlocks who, in the PHB, have their emphasis in EVIL is bad PR for D&D.

That's what I've heard thusfar.

 

[M.L. Martin]

I wonder why they chose to ignore the Elemental Tempest as a source, then?

After all, a Warlock who makes a pact with a powerful Efreet makes as much sense.

My first instinct is to say "With limited space, they though the fey, shadowy, and infernal patrons were more interesting/more useful to most groups, so they're saving the other options (elemental, celestial, perhaps even draconic) for the arcane supplement."

But this could be wishful thinking.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

Oh. Jack Bauer. I kept seeing that name and reading Jason Bourne.

What is it with government agents having the initials JB?

It's Just Because.

 

[frankthedm]

Hey, I'm black...couldn't find any cool black fantasy art for an avatar

Well MTG's Southern Paladin was the first example that springs to mind.

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/WL/en-us/Card4589.jpg

The Mirage M:tg set had more black people than typical for fantasy art IIRC

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/MI/en-us/Card3427.jpg

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/MI/en-us/Card3425.jpg

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/MI/en-us/Card3444.jpg

http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=3463

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/MI/en-us/Card3482.jpg

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/MI/en-us/Card3509.jpg

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/VI/en-us/Card3708.jpg

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/VI/en-us/Card3623.jpg

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/VI/en-us/Card3732.jpg

 

[Hussar]

*snip*

"WATER IS EVIL BECAUSE PEOPLE DROWN IN IT." "BUT PEOPLE NEED IT TO LIVE." "This is angsty because it is morally ambiguous! Where is my clear-cut heroic force of nature?"


*snip*

ROTFLMAO. You sir are a master!

 

[Aeolius]

...I was hoping to create pacts with anything in the elemental tempest as well as the abyss, and getting a different set of abilities depending on which you choose. Mostly because I think an elemental savant type arcane striker would be awesome.

That's how I set them up, in my undersea game; warlocks deriving powers from elemental energies.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

I dig it. I dig it alot. Aww yeah! It's like $240 worth of pudding!

 

[Wolfspider]

Killing people is precisely what gives them special abilities. Why does the cleric get 2nd level spells? He killed enough goblins.

This is not true, but I think you know that already.

Ignoring for the time being the fact that characters can advance in levels without killing, a cleric who does kill monsters and such does not receive special powers as a direct consequence of such killing. That is, he doesn't kill a goblin and suddenly receive a second-level spell slot for that day or some kind of special divine favor from his deity.

For a recent campaign I played a paladin of Murlynd who didn't kill unless it was absolutely unavoidable. He instead used traps and subdual weapons and attacks. He was something of a bounty hunter for his church. He advanced just fine in levels.

The supposed similarities between an evil warlock and a good cleric or paladin are not "precise" at all.