Design & Development: The Warlock

[Lonely Tylenol]

I was unaware that I, personally, had called any specific person a name. Please indicate where I have.

Assume it's the rhetorical "you" and stop defending people who are, in fact, calling people names.

Wrong. 100% wrong. Characters gain xp, and thereby levels, by overcoming challenges. Traps are challenges. Puzzles are challenges. Role-playing awards are too. It's entirely possible to use non-lethal damage to overcome those goblins and get to the next level.

Sure, one could play that way. It's not the way that 90% of games are played, but it's entirely possible. Given that the vast majority of games are "go somewhere, kill something, get loot and XP," I hardly think you're justified in calling my characterization 100% wrong.

Han Solo didn't get to be an ace pilot and crack shot by making a deal with a supernaturally evil power.

No, that would be genre mixing.

James Bond and Jack Bauer don't have any powers at all, and both work for their respective governments. They each believe what they do is for the greater good of their country (and their countries are not inherantly evil, despite what some say).

I can't speak to Jack Bauer, since I've never watched whatever he's in, but James Bond is a stone-cold killer. He never gave a rat's butt whether what he did was for the greater good. He just enjoyed being a super-spy. It got him action, girls, and martinis, and he really had no other goals in life. He's the good guy because he's instructed to be by his handlers, to which he is loyal. He's actually a pretty fantastic example of how to set up a character of questionable morals to operate in a game-friendly way.

Wolverine was born with his powers long before the Weapon X project. He didn't volunteer for what was done to him.

Go back and read the flavour text of the 3.5 warlock. Some of them are suggested to be what you might call "pact scions." In other words, they inherited the family business through no fault of their own.

Spawn is the ONLY one you listed that fits the description of Hero that gets his powers from dealing with the devil. But even he was tricked by the devil into accepting the deal, and he spends his time on earth trying to undo that deal and thwart the devil's plans.

And this makes a bad concept for an infernal warlock because...

 

[Rechan]

From Rich Baker's blog

Tomorrow I'll be working on the warlock class description. The development's done, so I'm really going to be looking to fine-tune the presentation and the flavor. We're going to have a "warlock flavor meeting" to talk about "developing" the class flavor. Just how close can we skate on the dark-and-sinister angle? What sort of naming themes do we want to use for powers? Would it be cool to give the warlock a strong planar theme and use names like Mire of Minauros and Armor of Agathys? (I sorta like 'em, they've got a nice Doctor Strange ring to them). Or would it be better to stay off of obscure previous-edition references like that? I'm looking forward to the conversation.

...

We're going to try to make those a little more explicit toward effect than they were in 3E -- in other words, I want to make sure that the text explains exactly what the power's doing. Something like You fire an ebon ray of necromantic energy that lances straight to your oponent's heart is probably more useful than text like You stand on one foot, close one eye, and think of pigeons; from your outstetched little finger a burst of soul-shattering black energy lances into your foe's heart and explodes it. We'll see how if I got the right balance.

I did similar work on the warlock powers over the last couple of days. It was actually a little tough with the warlock powers, because the warlock's got many more powers than he had before, and we don't want all of them to just drip with evil. Making sure that several different varieties of warlock flavor were scattered through the powers was important to me. Fortunately a good number of cleric powers are "classics" that have been around for a long time, so a little bit o' polish and they're good for another edition.

 

[Rechan]

Something else to consider.

Dragon Magic presented pacts with Dragons in it.

Maybe the "Feral" pact = Pact with Dragons?

 

[Cadfan]

I can't speak to Jack Bauer, since I've never watched whatever he's in, but James Bond is a stone-cold killer.

Jack Bauer is impossible to judge because he doesn't exist in reality. He exists in a moral universe that looks like reality, but in which a magical narrative force conspires to make it morally necessary for him to torture people.

Imagine a fantasy show in which the author walks on screen at the beginning of the series and explains, "Orcs in this show are inherently evil. They are unredeemable in any possible way. Any orc will, if it can, commit murder and mayhem. The only possible way to defend yourself from an orc is to kill it. Nothing else will deter its villainy. I know this because I wrote the show and I say so."

And then the show is half an hour of an allegedly heroic character stabbing little green babies. He goes through literally hundreds. Its just one long orc baby genocide.

Is that character evil?

That's Jack Bauer. The magic of narrative power puts him in repeated situations where disregarding the US Constitution, the rights and freedoms of American citizens, US law, Geneva, etc, etc, etc, is the only way to save millions from doom.

 

[Rechan]

Oh. Jack Bauer. I kept seeing that name and reading Jason Bourne.

What is it with government agents having the initials JB?

 

[M.L. Martin]

Something else to consider.

Dragon Magic presented pacts with Dragons in it.

Maybe the "Feral" pact = Pact with Dragons?

Doubtful; of the adjectives that apply to dragons, 'feral' isn't one that comes immediately to mind.

However, assuming the sorcerer doesn't take on the 'draconic magic' role in 4E, perhaps the arcane book that's rumored will include variant talents and powers for warlocks who derive their power from dragons, a la the dragonfire adept and dragonpact magic. I'm hoping for this and the celestial-powered variant in that supplement.

 

[Klaus]

It seems to me:

Infernal -> Nine Hells
Shadowy -> Shadowfell
Feral -> Feywild

 

[Badkarmaboy]

If alignment is said to play a lesser role in 4E, why the heated discussion over alignment + the Warlock?

Look at the 4E promo fig thread. That thing's a devil and it doesn't have an alignment.

I have a couple guys I game with regularly who play great warlock PCs. I think that the added Binder-ish flavor they seem to be getting will make them a lot more fun. Heck, I might even play one.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Quick request: people have mentioned that paladins for 4E will have alignment restrictions removed. Can someone point me to where that information came from?

 

[Rechan]

It seems to me:

Infernal -> Nine Hells
Shadowy -> Shadowfell
Feral -> Feywild

I wonder why they chose to ignore the Elemental Tempest as a source, then?

After all, a Warlock who makes a pact with a powerful Efreet makes as much sense.