Design & Development: Traps is up!

[Daniel D. Fox]

Perhaps Perception is a static "defense", and Spot is what is rolled when you actively look for something/someone?

 

[Steely Dan]

Perhaps Perception is a static "defense"

But "Perception +5" doesn't sound static.

 

[jester47]

GRIMTOOTHS TRAPS - These rules bring back the cool traps and make them workable. Awesome.

Passive perception- I think this probably operates when you are not in a hurried situation. If you are running from the Ogre expect to roll. Also, entering a certain room, a party could decide to take a long look- but then again, the article seems to imply that the 3.x rule of not being able to take 20 when searching for traps holds.

Also I suspect a class feature of Rogues would be that their passive perception increases as they go up in level. So at first level a rogues passive perception is 11+skill+stat+other. and at level 10 it is 20+skill+stat+other...

Or maybe rogues just take 20 and everyone else just takes 10.

Who knows... But this has a lot of room to work with.

 

[Nikosandros]

Also I suspect a class feature of Rogues would be that their passive perception increases as they go up in level. So at first level a rogues passive perception is 11+skill+stat+other. and at level 10 it is 20+skill+stat+other...

But all skills already increase with level. This would give rogues an excessively high perception.

 

[jester47]

But all skills already increase with level. This would give rogues an excessively high perception.

well then maybe it goes up every other level or somthing... pure speculation.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I'm not sure how it will work, but we have to remember that traps will be treated as bona-fide encounters instead of "roll then avoid" obstacles. In many monster encounters, Spot checks are rolled when the PCs encounter the monsters in order to determine who has surprise. PCs or monsters who aren't surprised get a free surprise round.

I believe this kind of thinking is more along the lines of what the Perception check means for 4e traps. If you fail the perception check, it means the trap gets a "surprise" round.

 

[Dragonblade]

I find it interesting that there seems to be a default assumption going on here (at least among those against the static check) that detecting a trap is tantamount to identifying a trap. I don't think that's a valid assumption; I know for a fact that when I DM in 3.x, I usually make rogues do two search checks (unless they beat the first one's DC by a high enough margin): first roll is a general "is there anything out of the ordinary here" search. The second roll, which can be either Search or Craft: Trapsmith is the one that actually identifies just what the trap does.

With this system, it looks like I could dispense with the first roll and just give a note to the Perceptive character(s) stating: "You spot something out of place, but it's going to take a closer look to see just what it is." Then, they'd make an ACTIVE perception roll against a DC that's, say, 5 higher than the default, 10 if it's a particularly well-concealed mechanism.

The static perception check seems more like a character noticing something like, "Odd, that stone looks a bit funny. Better be careful here...."

This is a great system. I suspect that 4e will look something like this, or hopefully a better version. Whatever that looks like....

 

[Dragonblade]

I'm not sure how it will work, but we have to remember that traps will be treated as bona-fide encounters instead of "roll then avoid" obstacles. In many monster encounters, Spot checks are rolled when the PCs encounter the monsters in order to determine who has surprise. PCs or monsters who aren't surprised get a free surprise round.

I believe this kind of thinking is more along the lines of what the Perception check means for 4e traps. If you fail the perception check, it means the trap gets a "surprise" round.

Interesting insight. This is another good idea that it would be cool to see 4e implement.

 

[Mistwell]

This new system brings traps in line with other encounters.

Right now in 3e, technically you are rolling a spot or listen check to determine when the encounter starts (it's in the DMG). However realistically, rarely was that mechanic used, because encounters just started when a door was opened and the opponents were within line of sight of the party, and the party was within line of sight of the opponents. Really all that meant was that the characters take ten on their spot check and the spot check required was a 5 and so everyone saw everyone else.

Similarly, most parties just said "I search the area for traps as I go" when out of combat (which is where most traps were located), which is essentially the same as taking 10 most of the time unless the player says they are spending special time on it (taking 20 or rolling specifically to search). This new system takes those realities into account.

You can still specifically search for traps (it sounds like), but the passive search that was always being used, along with the passive spot and listen, are now taken into account in the rules. Which I like. It more accurately replicates what the PCs tend to do anyway with the rules.

It doesn't really change much for traps, since realistically a passive check is what was most often used anyway in 3e.

What does really change is the nature of traps as encounters, and I think it's a good change. That traps can have multiple detect points, trigger points, initiative count, elements for various characters to "attack" or halt, etc...means a trap is akin to an opponent now, or an environmental challenge in the midst of a battle. That's a great change, and explains even more why they would bring spotting the trap into line with spotting the encounter (a passive check).

As far as "Thievery", I suspect that is not a skill, but an ability or feat or talent that Rogues get at first level for free but which other characters would have to take as a feat or talent if they want it. That makes more sense, given the hints we have about "multiclassing".

 

[Lord Zardoz]

So, there's no point whatsoever to traps, right?

The DM simply decides whether the party spots the trap or not, by setting the DC for perception either above the party's max or not above it.

Your forgetting that 4th Edition really seems to like flipping Saves to attack rolls. I am sure that it looks more like this:

1) PC has a Perception score of 15.
2) Trap / Hidden monster has Stealth of +8
3) Dm rolls 1d20 + 8, compares to Stealth score. If the DM roll 8 or more, the player does not see the trap.

The secondary benefit here is that if the DM rolls say, a 18 or 19 for the stealth roll, he can use that 1 roll against every PC.

END COMMUNICATION