Design Rule Question - Bonus Spells

TheYeti1775 · Jul 7, 2006

Why did they not set Bonus Spells for 0 Level spells?
Seems kinda hokey That with a 28 Int a 12th level mage can cast 7 1st level spells and only 4 0 levels.

Anyone have any insight to this?

Yeti

Grymar · Jul 7, 2006

Nope, but I houserule that bonus spells for 1st level also count for cantrips.

the Jester · Jul 7, 2006

I suspect because they would have to either give bonus spells for a stat of 10 (which, being average, shouldn't give a bonus) or make it even harder to get higher-level bonus spells.

Mind, this is my personal theory only.

jmucchiello · Jul 7, 2006

the Jester said:
I suspect because they would have to either give bonus spells for a stat of 10 (which, being average, shouldn't give a bonus)

Why can't you receive a bonus for having an average value? A (slightly) better reason is that a stat of 10 is the minimum necessary to cast any spells and that you should not receive a bonus for being at the minimum. But even that is not necessary etched in stone.

They could easily have said the 1st level bonus also applies to the 0 level spell slots.

TheYeti1775 · Jul 7, 2006

jmucchiello said:
They could easily have said the 1st level bonus also applies to the 0 level spell slots.

Would work for me or even bump it to 0 Level bonus spells equaling your Albility Mod.
But I wasn't really looking for a solution, mainly an insight if anyone knew of a decent reason why.

Yeti

BlueBlackRed · Jul 7, 2006

How about because level 0 spells have very little value by the time you hit 10th level.
If it weren't the Detect line of spells, Cure Minor Wounds, and Light I wouldn't bother writing them down.

TheYeti1775 · Jul 7, 2006

BlueBlackRed said:
How about because level 0 spells have very little value by the time you hit 10th level.
If it weren't the Detect line of spells, Cure Minor Wounds, and Light I wouldn't bother writing them down.

But when you play a ROLE intensified session these gems are great for their other ones.

Yeti

Vanye · Jul 7, 2006

BlueBlackRed said:
How about because level 0 spells have very little value by the time you hit 10th level.
If it weren't the Detect line of spells, Cure Minor Wounds, and Light I wouldn't bother writing them down.

I find mage hand and presidigitation to be useful, as is Resistance, and the Ray of x spells can be useful as well. Sure, you might not do a lot of damage to your target with a ray of frost, but you can do some, and it can damage some objects..plus it's nice to have for those rare times your party might be subject to a heat metal spell...

genshou · Jul 9, 2006

Hmm, I haven't looked at bonus 0-level spells since buying Elements of Magic - Revised. Perhaps if I can find the old house rule among all that dust...

I just applied bonus cantrips equal to the ability modifier, like you also thought of. I know of no design rule from which the lack of bonus cantrips was spawned, but it's never going to be overpowering to allow more cantrips and orisons. :lol:

Wik · Jul 9, 2006

Y'know, I happen to really like 0 level spells... there have been numerous times that Disrupt Undead saved my butt, and even at 10th level, a well-used Ghost Sound has got my mages out of trouble.

As for the no bonus spells... I dunno. I think if you gave wizards a bunch of extra spells at low level, even 0 level spells, and you're going to make them a lot tougher. A 1st level mage who gets one or two extra uses of Ray of Frost is going to be a lot more useful, in my personal experience - and I think low-level mages shouldn't be receiving that boost. As for higher levels... I guess I just don't see the need.

Adding bonus 0 level spells would just muddy everything up, I think.