Detect Thoughts and Invisibility

[gordonknox]

In a raid on a bandits, the leader became invisible. He later cast a spell and came into view.

To locate him, I was going to do a scan of the area with a detect thoughs (presuming the bandit leader was in range of the spell).

Would this help me locate his general location? The idea was to find out about where he was and cast a large range spell in his area to in the least make him visible and at most, affect him with the spell.

 

[LokiDR]

Not well. from SRD

Divination [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 2, Knowledge 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Quarter circle emanating from the character to the extreme of the range
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (see text)
Spell Resistance: No

The character detect surface thoughts. The amount of information revealed depends on how long the character studies a particular area or subject:

1st Round: Presence or absence of thoughts (from conscious creatures with Intelligence scores of 1 or higher).

2nd Round: Number of thinking minds and the mental strength of each.

3rd Round: Surface thoughts of any mind in the area. A target’s Will save prevents the character from reading its thoughts, and the character must cast detect thoughts again to have another chance. Creatures of animal intelligence (Int 1 or 2) have simple, instinctual thoughts that the character can pick up.

Note: Each round, the character can turn to detect thoughts in a new area. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

Only 60' range, and it takes standard action per round. You would have to make sure that there are no allies in the quarter circle. This doesn't even let you know where he is, just 90 degree arc 60' long. He can just move on.

 

[Drawmack]

If you want to see invisibility why not use this (quoted from the SRD)

See Invisibility

Divination
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: Cone
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The character sees any objects or beings that are invisible, as well as any that are astral or ethereal, as if they were normally visible.

The spell does not reveal the method used to obtain invisibility, though an astral traveler is easy to identify if he has a silver cord. It does not reveal illusions or enable the character to see through opaque objects. It does not reveal creatures who are simply hiding, concealed, or otherwise hard to see.

 

[Christian]

Um, because he didn't know that spell or have it prepared?

In the middle of an adventure, you sometimes have to press spells into service that they weren't designed for ...

 

[Krafen]

I don't think detect thoughts would help much. You can use detect magic to determine the square an invisible creature is in because it gives the location of the magical auras. From the description, detect thoughts gives no indication of location.

 

[durath]

it'd work...somewhat

Detect thoughts could possibly work but you would need at least 2 rounds for it to be of any use.

In the second round you determine how many thinking minds are in range. Let's say that number comes up to be 6 and you only see 5 people. That would indicate that some one is possibly invisible in the area.

In a pinch this spell might do but if you have any time to plan I'd say go a different route.

 

[Rel]

I don't think detect thoughts would help much. You can use detect magic to determine the square an invisible creature is in because it gives the location of the magical auras.

We had this happen to us by an NPC wizard.

Permit me a minor rant that has little relevance to the issue at hand: Wizard spotted my familiar (a bat) sitting in a tree 70 feet away, at night. He then suspected that something might be going on so he cast Detect Magic and detected the party Monk who was Invisible and sneaking through the jungle. Because the Monk continued to sneak, he didn't move fast enough to get out of the area of effect of the Detect Magic and the Wizard pinpointed his location and sicced his minions on us (the rest of the party was inside a special Bag of Holding being carried by the Monk - don't ask). This resulted in an encounter of approximately 3x the CR of the party and ultimately our group's first ever Total Party Kill.

So, I recommend using Detect Magic in a pinch.

 

[LokiDR]

We had this happen to us by an NPC wizard.

Permit me a minor rant that has little relevance to the issue at hand: Wizard spotted my familiar (a bat) sitting in a tree 70 feet away, at night. He then suspected that something might be going on so he cast Detect Magic and detected the party Monk who was Invisible and sneaking through the jungle. Because the Monk continued to sneak, he didn't move fast enough to get out of the area of effect of the Detect Magic and the Wizard pinpointed his location and sicced his minions on us (the rest of the party was inside a special Bag of Holding being carried by the Monk - don't ask). This resulted in an encounter of approximately 3x the CR of the party and ultimately our group's first ever Total Party Kill.

So, I recommend using Detect Magic in a pinch.

I don't think Detect magic is amazing for this use.

Detect Magic

Universal
Level: Brd 0, Clr 0, Drd 0, Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Quarter circle emanating from the character to the extreme of the range
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The character detect magical auras. The amount of information revealed depends on how long the character studies a particular area or subject:

1st Round: Presence or absence of magical auras.

2nd Round: Number of different magical auras and the strength of the strongest aura.

3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, the character can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + half caster level for a nonspell effect.)

Magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may confuse or conceal weaker auras.

First, you must continue concentrating or the spell ends (see duration). Next, you still only get 60', though in 360 degrees. Then you realize that you only get a fix on them after 3 full rounds.

For your monk buddy, I think the wizard would also have to beat the monk's hide, since detect magic won't see through solid object like detect thoughts. The bonuses on detect magic is that it is a cantrip, operates in 360 degrees, doesn't force your allies to move (so you can bluff you aren't searching) and you get to know if they have any more powerful magic on them. Detect thoughs, on the other hand, can find hiding people and hopefully read their intensions.

I would go with detect magic, but it isn't the best way to stop invis.

 

[Christian]

For your monk buddy, I think the wizard would also have to beat the monk's hide, since detect magic won't see through solid object like detect thoughts.

Divination spells do not need line of effect. The target is the caster ... unless the tree is a full three feet thick (see the Detect Magic spell description) and giving the character 100% cover, it will not hide the character from the spell.

I'd be more concerned about the enemy wizard detecting the bat from 70 feet away at night. That's about a DC 30 or so Spot check. And even then, what would make him think it wasn't just a bat? (Flip it around-if the enemy wizard's bat familiar were spying on your party at night, would he have let you notice it under those conditions? Fat chance!)

But that's another rant ...

 

[Dr_Rictus]

I agree; Rel's DM seems to have given detect magic too much credit. For one thing, unless the wizard himself were running up to the invisible monk (tricky while maintaining concentration, not to mention risky) I have no idea how he would clearly communicate the invisible character's position to his minions within a 5' tolerance once every round. That seems pretty tricky all by itself.

By the way, detect magic doesn't actually operate in 360 degrees as LokiDR suggests. It's explicitly limited to a 90 degree arc (a quarter circle).

We could also discuss just why the wizard thought it was suspicious to see a bat sitting in a tree at night. That part makes no sense to me either.