Detect Thoughts and Invisibility

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think you still have to beat the Monks Hide Checks to actually see him - you might detect there is a Magic Aura, but to pinpoint it, you have to a Spot Check against his Hide Value (though I probably would not account for special circumstances like lighting and so on)

And the fact that a wizard becomes suspicious if he sees a bat at night in a tree is probably only metagaming, unless he had any reason to assume enemies might use a bat to spy on him...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Rel]

My GM is not a complete bastard, but I do think there were some questionable calls involved.

Without going into all the details, the Wizard involved rolled a natural 20 on his Spot check and did have low-light vision (he was one of those "Dragon Folk" guys from Monsters of Faerun). The guy who we were trying to kill (who was sleeping in one of the tents in the camp) had met my character once and knew I had a bat familiar. The GM explained after the fact that he had told the Wizard to be on the look out for a bat who might be spying on the camp.

All of this presupposes a lot. The guy we were trying to assassinate was a half-orc warrior who seemed about as smart as the average half-orc when we met him. I find it a bit dubious that he would even realize the bat was my familiar, much less know that I was capable of using the familiar to spy with. I also think that even though the Wizard rolled a natural 20 on his Spot check that it shouldn't have constitued an automatic success in spotting a Diminutive bat, hiding in a tree, near the edges of his visual range.

But, I do think that if all of that is taken as given, he adjudicated the Detect Magic right.

The sad part is that after we got busted, we gave them a hell of a fight. Despite some bad rolls early, we fought back until we had downed every one of the bad guys (including 10-12 2nd level Fighters and a couple of other Wizards) except the Wizard. That was when we got fireballed. Our party was 3rd level.

FYI, the bat was the only surviving memeber of the party.

 

[LokiDR]

I think you still have to beat the Monks Hide Checks to actually see him - you might detect there is a Magic Aura, but to pinpoint it, you have to a Spot Check against his Hide Value (though I probably would not account for special circumstances like lighting and so on)
.....
Mustrum Ridcully

I would think this as well if you were actually seeing the person. The problem is that detect, as some friendly poster mentioned, goes right through solid material. Even if light won't get to you, the spell pinpoints you.

Rel: I think you should still have been able to get away. The goons will not be able to find the monk, being invis. It would take a few rounds of "Marko-Polo" to get his minions to the monk's square. If the monk doesn'attack, the minions still get 50% miss chance. The monk should have been able to run without a problem, if he wanted to.

It sounds like you were facing overwelming odds once you were actually fighting. I would have run myself, once they spotted me by any means.

 

[Christian]

You have to concentrate for three rounds before you can pinpoint their location. It's in the FAQ, page 44 in the latest version.

That's right, Mr. Icon, but to continue to have knowledge of his position, you need to continue to concentrate each round as a full-round action. So, any round you decide to stop concentrating, you no longer have knowledge of his position ...

For example:

Round 1: (Wizard) "I cast Detect Magic and scan the area to the north." (DM) "You detect a magic aura."
Round 2: (Wizard) "I concentrate on the Detect Magic." (DM) "There is one magic aura in that area."
Round 3: (Wizard) "I continue to concentrate on the Detect Magic." (DM) "The magic aura is in [points] this square."
(Now, the enemy mage moves.)
Round 4: (Wizard) "I continue to concentrate on the Detect Magic." (DM) "The magic aura is now in [points] this square."
(Now, the enemy mage moves again.)
Round 5: (Wizard) "I cast Fireball, centered on the square the magic aura was in last round." (DM) "OK." (Wizard) "Any screams of pain?" (DM) "Nope." (Wizard) "Blast!" (The enemy mage moved more than the 20' burst radius of the Fireball, so he was out of the area of effect when the spell went off.)

There's no way for the wizard to both confirm the location of the target aura and cast a spell at its location in the same round. Unless he's Hasted, of course ... What's more, when you stop concentrating, you not only lose your 'fix', but the spell entirely drops. The wizard above, if he wants to try this again, has to burn another 0-level spell (if he has another Detect Magic prepared, of course) and start over from round 1.

My group finished its adventure last night. On downtime, my halfling sorcerer managed to purchase a scroll of Detect Invisibility. I am not going through that hell again.

 

[Larcen]

...
FYI, the bat was the only surviving memeber of the party.

LOL! Oh man, I needed that this morning. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Skaros]

Re: detect thoughts is cool

I think detect thoughts is a really clever idea for finding an invisible person. But not the way most of you seem to be wanting to use it. Everyone is so mechanical about spells and such, missing the sublter roll playing aspects. It is a roll playing game after all, not a computer game. Theortically the NPC's have some depth. Ok, enough rant.

I find it pretty ironic that in your "rant" you spelled role playing as "roll" playing, considering roll playing is usually what people use to refer to the dice rolling, stat adding, mechanical part of the game....

Particularly considering that you are ranting about people in a _rules_ forum actually trying to provide answers based on _rules_

-Skaros

 

[Rel]

It sounds like you were facing overwelming odds once you were actually fighting. I would have run myself, once they spotted me by any means.

Well, Loki, in my experience, there is often a vast gulf between what the party SHOULD do and what the party DOES do.

The trick was that if we failed to take out the Half-Orc (who had a spell like ability to locate the artifact we were carrying) we were going to be trying to evade an army of flying lizard wizards. On foot. In a jungle. At gnome speed.

 

[LokiDR]

Well, Loki, in my experience, there is often a vast gulf between what the party SHOULD do and what the party DOES do.

The trick was that if we failed to take out the Half-Orc (who had a spell like ability to locate the artifact we were carrying) we were going to be trying to evade an army of flying lizard wizards. On foot. In a jungle. At gnome speed.

Yes there is a big gap between SHOULD and DO, usually slanted to "Um, bob, that was really stupid", but that is what makes the game fun

Ya, sounds like you were heading to a TPK in any event. You should have burned down the jungle, and hoped they died

I am just picturing Cpt Kirk puching a button and saying "Scotty, we.....need Gnome Speed....now!"

 

[kreynolds]

You should have burned down the jungle, and hoped they died

Heh. My first ever D&D character, back in 2nd edition, used this tactic quite a bit, and very effectively, I might add. Nothing to get a good forest fire going better than burning hands or a fireball.

 

[gordonknox]

So, this will work?

gk