Detect Thoughts and Invisibility

[Christian]

Sorry-I should have added, Loki's general point is correct. Detect Magic is not a great spell for detecting invisible/hidden creatures (as my party discovered last week). You can't yourself take action against a pinpointed creature (unless you're hasted), because you need to concentrate as a full-round action to confirm their present position. You can attack next round-but they'll have had an action to move since then, and if they have an Int of greater than 2, they will have.

Regarding the wizard 'siccing his minions', that's great in theory, but how does he communicate his 'pinpoint' location? 'They're over that way [pointing] about 50 feet.' 'Uh, OK, Boss. [Charges blindly.]" Oh, of course-they're pinpointed on a grid. "Go get 'em-they're in squares J-15 and J-16." "Ahh! You sunk my battleship!" (Sorry-I couldn't resist.)

Still better than nothing, of course, but no substitute for Detect Invisibility or Glitterdust. (Damn, I wish my Sorcerer had taken Glitterdust for his second 2nd level spell-it's next on his list, but that's not until 7th level. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.)

 

[kramis]

detect thoughts is cool

I think detect thoughts is a really clever idea for finding an invisible person. But not the way most of you seem to be wanting to use it. Everyone is so mechanical about spells and such, missing the sublter roll playing aspects. It is a roll playing game after all, not a computer game. Theortically the NPC's have some depth. Ok, enough rant.

Given some time with the spell you could likely get an idea where he was by his thoughts ... what is actually thinking. Like, if he was thinking

"just a little to the left and the tree will no longer be blocking a clean shot with my weapon of doom"

you can assume he is behind a tree near one of you, etc. etc. If on of my players tried this use during one of my campaigns I would be quite impressed and would try and allow some leeway in the thoughts of the bad guy to give clues to his whereabouts.

Of course you have to concentrate for 3 rounds for this to work, but better than nothing and still a neat idea.

 

[LokiDR]

Divination spells do not need line of effect. The target is the caster ... unless the tree is a full three feet thick (see the Detect Magic spell description) and giving the character 100% cover, it will not hide the character from the spell.

I'd be more concerned about the enemy wizard detecting the bat from 70 feet away at night. That's about a DC 30 or so Spot check. And even then, what would make him think it wasn't just a bat? (Flip it around-if the enemy wizard's bat familiar were spying on your party at night, would he have let you notice it under those conditions? Fat chance!)

But that's another rant ...

My mistake. I missed the last line in the entry. Well, I guess detect thoughts just sucks for this purpose. Such as it is.

I don't want to get into another rant about DMing, so I will leave the other comment alone

 

[Christian]

Oh, yeah, detect thoughts is undoubtedly better than detect magic for this, if used intelligently. Plus, people can ready actions to issue/respond to warnings. This might be more effective than attacking, really, at least in terms of odds of success. (Wizard: "I ready an action to yell 'Duck' when the guy attacks." Other party members: "I ready an action to move 20' to my left when the Wizard yells 'Duck!'") Imagine how frustrating that could be to a would-be assassin. Especially if he just has Invisibility up, and reappears immediately upon his first attack, without a chance to counter-strategize ...

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Re: detect thoughts is cool

Given some time with the spell you could likely get an idea where he was by his thoughts ... what is actually thinking. Like, if he was thinking

"just a little to the left and the tree will no longer be blocking a clean shot with my weapon of doom"

I can't say I actually think much about my positioning and environment in the course of interacting with it. That's all pretty much well below the level of conscious thought almost all the time, in my purely subjective introspective experience.

 

[kreynolds]

you need to concentrate as a full-round action to confirm their present position.

You have to concentrate for three rounds before you can pinpoint their location. It's in the FAQ, page 44 in the latest version.

 

[gordonknox]

Re: detect thoughts is cool

I think detect thoughts is a really clever idea for finding an invisible person. But not the way most of you seem to be wanting to use it. Everyone is so mechanical about spells and such, missing the sublter roll playing aspects. It is a roll playing game after all, not a computer game. Theortically the NPC's have some depth. Ok, enough rant.

Given some time with the spell you could likely get an idea where he was by his thoughts ... what is actually thinking. Like, if he was thinking

"just a little to the left and the tree will no longer be blocking a clean shot with my weapon of doom"

you can assume he is behind a tree near one of you, etc. etc. If on of my players tried this use during one of my campaigns I would be quite impressed and would try and allow some leeway in the thoughts of the bad guy to give clues to his whereabouts.

Of course you have to concentrate for 3 rounds for this to work, but better than nothing and still a neat idea.

Right...

The idea was to concentrate outwards from the middle of the battle scene (I was hiding in the supply cart that the party was attacking) to a radius of 90 feet.

If the bandit leader was within range, and still not visible, I could detect his "leader-like" thoughts...

"...my direct orders are to get away with the tomes no matter what..."

"...these guards better react as trained..."

"...we must regroup/continue attacking/change tactics..."

gk

 

[Saeviomagy]

Note that concentration is specifically listed as a standard action, not a full-round action.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: Re: detect thoughts is cool

Right...

The idea was to concentrate outwards from the middle of the battle scene (I was hiding in the supply cart that the party was attacking) to a radius of 90 feet.

If the bandit leader was within range, and still not visible, I could detect his "leader-like" thoughts...

"...my direct orders are to get away with the tomes no matter what..."

"...these guards better react as trained..."

"...we must regroup/continue attacking/change tactics..."

gk

Um, 60 feet bud.

 

[gordonknox]

Um, 60 feet bud.

I meant to type that.