D&D 5E Determining a spellbook value

Phazonfish

B-Rank Agent
1. Thieves should never think it's a good idea to steal a wizard's spellbook for ransom. They're freaking wizards and do weird stuff.
2. Thieves should be scared crapless of what will happen to them for touching the spellbook.

On the other hand, if thieves weren't confident in their ability to take things without being caught and allowed the thought of getting caught to scare them out of it, they probably wouldn't be thieves. I'm sure there are all kinds of thieves out there and I'm sure creatures other than civilized humanoids won't always play by the same rules.
 

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Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
On the other hand, if thieves weren't confident in their ability to take things without being caught and allowed the thought of getting caught to scare them out of it, they probably wouldn't be thieves. I'm sure there are all kinds of thieves out there and I'm sure creatures other than civilized humanoids won't always play by the same rules.

Sure.

1. Kobolds may take the book not knowing what it is and think the ruckus earns them the right to ask for a ransom, perhaps food for their tribe.
2. Demons may take the book knowing full well what they're doing and look for the soul of the mage.

Depends on the thief but messing with a wizard when you're a thief is asking for pain unless you're well prepared.
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
Hmmm, I've just ticked off a powerful Wizard AND HIS FRIENDS. Am I going to show my face before them in person? Heck no, I'm going to employ several layers of subterfuge and go-betweens, so as to keep them away from me.

A Liam Neeson character: "I have acquired a particular set of skills. If you do not return the spellbook - immediately and undamaged - I will hunt you down, and I will kill you."

Are their any other spellcasters in the group? Detect Object, Scrying, and modifying Legend Lore all come to mind immediately.
 
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delericho

Legend
One thing to note is the rogue on his own has no idea what is specifically in the book...

Well... sort of. In this instance the 'rogue' is an Oni, so may well have the ability to do so.

That said...

The price should be plot determined...

This I agree with, mostly. As I said above, I think a better approach is probably some sort of quest-based transaction - the Oni has something he needs done but can't do himself for some reason, so he'll give the book back in exchange for a favour.
 

cthulhu42

Explorer
Since some advisers are assuming a little beyond the actual situation (my fault for not describing what's going on), I'll give a quick rundown on where we're at.

Warning! Potential spoilers ahead!

I'm running a module and the party are deep into it. Probably about halfway through. They've just been funneled into a dragon's lair (two young, white dragons). Just as they were putting the finishing touches on one of them and turning their undivided attention to the second of the pair, a cloud giant, a frost giant, four ogres, and an Oni come at them from behind.

During the fight the party wizard gets knocked out and is laying unconscious. Everybody else is in toe to toe melee, pretty much, and there's the Oni, invisible, flying around, not twenty feet away from the wizard who has a handy haversack on his back and a staff of frost laying next to him.

Long story short, the Oni sees which way the wind is blowing (the 2nd dragon is dead, the cloud giant is dead, and the frost giant is barely hanging in there, while the remaining PC's still have quite a bit of fight left in them), so he snaps up the haversack and staff and off he flies.

His escape is not a clean getaway, but get away he eventually does to a spot further down an unexplored (by the PC's) tunnel where a few of his ogre brethren are hanging back. The PC's are in no shape to go charging down the tunnel after him (they don't even actually know he's down there, for that matter; currently they assume he went the opposite direction towards the dungeon entrance and the great wide open), so there's a few moments of downtime where the party tend to their wounds and check out the dragon horde, and the Oni rummages through the haversack, finding what he assumes is a spell book. He's smart enough not to just open it without precautions, but quickly hatches a plan. He got a decent look at the dragon horde, and thinks if he plays this thing right he might just get most of it for himself.

He knows the party is hurt and in need of rest, so he's got to approach them asap before they get back to full strength. His plan is to write a quick note suggesting a parlay and send it to the PC's via a white flag waving ogre lackey. He'll have one of the PC's meet him at a spot where several tunnels intersect. He'll be invisible and won't have the stolen items with him. One of his ogres has the stash with instructions to destroy it all if things go sideways.

He'll ask for 10k (he figures there's at least that in the horde, and in return he'll give up the book. He'll probably keep the haversack to carry his new loot in, but he might be persuaded to give up the staff as well. Furthermore, he might offer up some info on the main bunch of bad guys who are further in the dungeon, planning a pretty mean ambush for the interloping PC's.

If he can get away with it, this no name monster from the module will suddenly become a whole lot more interesting, and I can see him making appearances in the future. Certainly the PC's will want their revenge. But even now I'm thinking of all kinds of machinations this Oni could be up to. He knows he's pissing off at least a powerful wizard, so it stands to reason he has some back up of his own in the form of powerful friends. Hell, maybe he's actually a mercenary good/bad guy that the PC's will discover, to their dismay, is untouchable. I don't really know at this point, but the possibilities are endless.

So yeah, it's a dangerous thing to steal from a wizard, but he must be fairly certain he can get away with it.

As far as his demands, there's a few other goods in the haversack that he'll probably keep as well, and while the loss of 10k will sting the party a little, it's not the end of the world. Mere gold may seem innocuous, but I figure I can come up with a good reason for him to want straight cash.

I probably won't have him ask the party to quest for him. 1) he knows if he lets them get back to full strength they'd just as likely gear up to deal with him in a violent and murderous manner, and do just that. He want's to get the deal done and get gone while the getting is good. 2) Not every encounter has to be a side quest. Too much of that gets old. Besides, the party already has a laundry list of quests just waiting for them. Trust me, they're plenty busy. I'm actually a little worried that they won't even get to all of them before level 20.

So that's it, in a nutshell.

Oh, and I should probably mention, during the battle I more or less played the Oni straight out of the book, and I'm not inclined to give him additional powers now. For one thing, if he was an arcane caster proper, he probably wouldn't consider giving up the spell book. For another, if he suddenly starts pulling rabbits out of his hat that he didn't while the PC's were trying to chase him down, they're going to find it awfully suspicious and figure out that I'm padding the guy. Besides, Oni's are pretty hardcore as written.

Anyway, thanks for all of the replies and advice. Some good stuff to consider here. And I think ultimately, letting the story and situation decide the ransom price is the right way to go.
 

Well... sort of. In this instance the 'rogue' is an Oni, so may well have the ability to do so.

That said...



This I agree with, mostly. As I said above, I think a better approach is probably some sort of quest-based transaction - the Oni has something he needs done but can't do himself for some reason, so he'll give the book back in exchange for a favour.

As far as I remember an Oni would be more like a Sorcerer than a Wizard. Which leads me to a mostly unrelated but kind of related set of questions.

Can all wizards read each others spellbooks? Is a spellbook written by a dwarf automatically legible to an Elf?

Also, can a sorcerer whose ability to cast spells comes innately, can he/she read through a wizards spellbook? Sure the sorcerer cannot cast the spells but does the innate spellcasting ability include the ability to read the arcane writing of a wizard? Asking because an Oni being an innate caster may have the same limitation, though I believe they are rather intelligent supernatural creatures so I would have no problem with a DM stating one could easily peruse the spell book.
 

delericho

Legend
Which leads me to a mostly unrelated but kind of related set of questions.

Can all wizards read each others spellbooks? Is a spellbook written by a dwarf automatically legible to an Elf?

Also, can a sorcerer whose ability to cast spells comes innately, can he/she read through a wizards spellbook?

These are all good questions, and the sort of stuff I love digging into for world-building purposes. Which means that I don't have the official answers available - I don't have the PHB easily to hand, and what I do IMC is distinctly non-standard. :)
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
The book does have some unusual and unique spells in it. However, the thief hasn't opened it, and probably won't for fear of magical traps and such. All he really knows is that it belonged to a reasonably powerful wizard. The thief is an Oni, if that helps, so he's got some inate spellcasting ability and a reasonable grasp of magic and how valuable the book is, but he's got no real use for it and he thinks he has a pretty good chance of turning it into a payday.

If the Oni isn't opening it, then the cost can't be based on the actual contents and what it's worth. I would go for what the Oni thinks the Wizard would pay for it, based on what the Wizard looks like they can afford.

Alternately if Oni are known to be honorable in your setting (reasonable for LE creatures), it could be a note like:

"Put what you are willing to pay and throw it over the bridge at XX. If I am satisfied, you will find your book returned by sundown. But do not insult me, else you will lose any chance to recover it and your shame will be spread."
 

CapnZapp

Legend
The previous edition (meaning 3.x/PF) had this to say:

Selling a Spellbook
Captured spellbooks can be sold for an amount equal to half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within.
The "purchasing" part doesn't mean the price of a scroll, it means the "copy fee" for using another wizard's book.
 

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