4E Developing a full Martial Controller Monk Via Feats / Build

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Making the Martial Artist class "martial" for me was an incredible no brainer. Even the martial practices included classic monk abilities that the psionic monk doesn't qualify to learn. Mostly however it is a flavor issue and/symbolic thing acknowledging that martial is indeed allowed to be awesome. Regardless the vividness of this martial artist class is pretty damn cool and doesn't need to be Asian in flavor either. There is a bit of role weirdness that seems like it could be addressed ... visualizing a lower damage but higher control monk seems exactly the thing. ( The striker monk from what I read of the charop crowd lacks a feature of strikers and that is single enemy focus fire take down - it may actually be too much a minion clearer ).

The 4e monk has some components of a controller already well at least multi-strike its use of mobility can somewhat substitute for range if plenty of that mobility incorporates shifting ie evading opportunity attacks .... Now the ranger has some similarity but it also had feats which enabled one to up the control factor considerably
with the sacrifice of damage... Giving something similar to the monk combined with its even more extensive multi-targeting I think could have the class branch solidly into controller realm, additionally we might borrow tid bits from the Rogue feats and powers for ahem more hard control functions... and apply to multi-opponents

Perhaps the controller monk might have its own variant "unarmored agility" primarily about avoiding opportunity attacks as it lays down its dish of battlefield control. And some hit it on the run style powers work better for this Soft/Gentle Hand style of monk... add a few hard control powers that trigger off of it and we can have a martial controller - martial artist.

Pressure Points feat (weakening)
"Carefully striking their limbs at pressure points creating sublime pain in addition to physical impairment which interferes with concentration used in casting you weaken their subsequent attacks " reduce the damage of your martial strike by one die each target and target enemy is weakened save ends *(terrible language I know) ;)
This seems too potent unless limited to perhaps one turn per encounter

Pressure Points feat (slowing)
"Carefully striking their lower limbs (or wings) with quick jabs you restrict the blood flow at pressure points reducing their mobility. "
Reduce the damage of your attack by 1 die... target hit is slowed till the end of your next turn. - note this is akin to hobbling strike but instead of being limited to hunters quarry damage we want it to apply to any of the monks attacks.

Right now this is just me jotting the initial idea down I would greatly appreciate any ideas others might have
 
I'd think rewrite from the ground up would make more sense. But, OK, you swap out Psionic for Martial....

Just adding "..other than the one you hit" to the target line of Furry of Blows de-Striker-fies them a bit, as that feature is no longer contributing to single-target damage.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I'd think rewrite from the ground up would make more sense. But, OK, you swap out Psionic for Martial....
That part is a done deal...

But what are you thinking? I suppose one could go with martial throws being a starting assumption any time an enemy misses you with an attack they may become prone if you are in the right stance or jacky chan style generating damage against enemies using their allies attacks a whole nother way to riposte.

Just adding "..other than the one you hit" to the target line of Furry of Blows de-Striker-fies them a bit, as that feature is no longer contributing to single-target damage.
considering they are already encouraged to use the fury attacks against another....
 
That part is a done deal...

But what are you thinking?
Well, re-jiggering their striker role support to be more controller - which, they're clearly secondary controllers, so that's very little re-jiggering.

The main deal with controller designs, though, seems to be lower hps, bit lower damage, more powerful powers. The last makes designing controllers an especial pain.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
The main deal with controller designs, though, seems to be lower hps, bit lower damage, more powerful powers. The last makes designing controllers an especial pain.
The trick of a controller who ... dances among the enemy to deliver their payload is that they are going to take more damage and the other coin is these arent the ranger whom one could postulate long range ability comparable to the mage... we are relying on boosted speed for range and such. A few more abilities to move through enemy squares would be handy for even reaching those further back enemies for this medium range controller.,. Every attack is sort of a charge.
 
You cannot "exactly" pattern on the mage ;) even though its the controller we were given... its not the one we deserve ;)
Other controllers seem to continue the pattern, though (with the proviso that Primal classes get more hps than usual for their role), and does /any/ controller have a significant role-support feature? Rather than just OP powers.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Other controllers seem to continue the pattern
Still not seeing them as being anything like the risky flavor maybe of the monk has more ignore me abilities... Well the new ones for the mage can do some nasty boosting on top of the op powers they have.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I suppose one could go with martial throws being a starting assumption any time an enemy misses you with an attack they may become prone if you are in the right stance or jacky chan style generating damage against enemies using their allies attacks a whole nother way to riposte.
Kind of like white lotus riposte with an utterly different style... and even a more controllery one than pure damage.

Attack the monk he tosses you for a loop... or diverts the attack into your allies.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
The precedent we have within the ranger class though for melee vs probably not melee is the 5/10/15 hit points from the toughness feat, Archer ranger gets a defensive mobility feat +2 AC vs opportunity attacks... and doesnt get that toughness.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Hm. I had either never noticed or completely forgotten that detail.
The druid and the monk already have the same hit points and healing surges... and the I turn in to a beast to pounce in and fight is already there. I think its participates in melee that does it.
 
The druid and the monk already have the same hit points and healing surges... and the I turn in to a beast to pounce in and fight is already there. I think its participates in melee that does it.
Like I mentioned, Primal is just hp-boosted, across the board.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Like I mentioned, Primal is just hp-boosted, across the board.
Sure but how does that controller manifest that... with at-wills that are stick my neck out grasping claws and pounce and various beast form powers... if your battlefield techniques put you in the thick of it most of the time you have hit points. From what I understand the monk currently its very easy to to stick your neck out and get it lopped off they are along ways from flush with too much health.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I think if a controller build has its own Way of the Gentle/Grasping? Hand avoids using Con it will be fine as a build of the existant Monk.
 
So, if more hps are OK, due to melee/mobility orientation, and tweaking Flurry of Blows easily takes it from striker role-support to controller role-support, that's a good start.

You already posted pressure points.

I like the idea of throws. Maybe you could do a throw (on the target) or a flurry of blows?

Oh, and throws could advance...

Prone.

Prone + condition.

Prone + hold/lock, cannot stand/other conditions that last until you escape.
 
Me too... Though I kind of like firing it off when the enemy misses.
Or as an interrupt, like Wizard's Escape or Repelling Shield. Controller get to be prickly, sometimes.
You could have both.

At-will throws that act as controller support, layering added control onto hits.
Encounter defensive throws that foil attacks and give the Monk a chance to get outta Dodge(pi)
 

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