4E Developing a full Martial Controller Monk Via Feats / Build

[Garthanos]

White lotus riposte being prickly if you are using arcane at-wills anyway.... I know likely only at lower levels or a tough day ... Precedent for prickly by way of feat anyway

 

[Tony Vargas]

This is starting to sound like it'd be fairly easy, actually.

 

[Garthanos]

This is starting to sound like it'd be fairly easy, actually.

They didnt layer the striker bit on too heavily.

 

[Garthanos]

Oh, and throws could advance...

Prone.

Prone + condition.

Prone + hold/lock, cannot stand/other conditions that last until you escape.

Indeed heroic is pone... immobilized is your lock ofcourse... but smashes enemy head into the wall == dazed and other conditions.

The basic knockdown could still get an attribute damage like wisdom bonus.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The basic knockdown could still get an attribute damage like wisdom bonus.

Or opponents STR mod replacing your Stat mod - use greater strength against itself.

 

[Garthanos]

Not as easy as a secondary Intelligence build for the fighter but still pretty doable without heavy heavy lifting perhaps.

 

[Garthanos]

Love that using strength against itself.

 

[Garthanos]

Giving the monk martial practices also seems a straight forward must do.

 

[Garthanos]

I was kind of thinking we make the Way of the Gentle Hand include the Martial Takedown stance instead of a flury but you sounded like you were thinking in addition to? But just defang the flurry. The Way of the Gentle hand becomes a modifier for the other Monk Traditions then? Like how certain feats change a bunch of different powers. (Cruel Cut Style is kind of the opposite for a fighter - with cross class impact)

@Tony Vargas

I suppose we do need to have the Flurry as a source of additional enemies to be affected by other abilities (like the pressure points) - this becomes a tactical choice do I drop into the Takedown stance or do I Flurry

 

[Yaarel]

@Garthanos

While you are designing the Monk.

Maybe also tweak the official Monk?

Basically, too many specific features are baked into the base class, leaving little or no room to flesh out different kinds of subclasses.

For example, I would like to see a Brawler as a martial Monk archetype, that fights weaponless or with improvised weapons. Basically a combination of bar fighter and mixed-martial-arts fighter, with some athletic stunts in the mix. Heh, this is definitely a nonmystical kind of Monk.

And so on.

A cleaner base, would make more room for other Monk archetypes.

 

[Garthanos]

@Garthanos

While you are designing the Monk.

Maybe also tweak the official Monk?

Basically, too many specific features are baked into the base class, leaving little or no room to flesh out a related subclass.

For example, I would like to see a Brawler as a martial Monk archetype, that fights weaponless or with improvised weapons. Basically a combination of bar fighter and mixed-martial-arts fighter, with some athletic stunts in the mix. Heh, this is definitely a nonmystical kind of Monk.

And so on.

A cleaner base, would make more room for other Monk archetypes.

One item at a time ... that's a dramatically different frame.
Oh I looked some at the 5e monk class it does have a very baked in aspect to it.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I was kind of thinking we make the Way of the Gentle Hand include the Martial Takedown stance instead of a flury but you sounded like you were thinking in addition to? But just defang the flurry.

I was thinking an alternative, but an in play alternative, not a chargen alternative.

 

[Garthanos]

I was thinking an alternative, but an in play alternative, not a chargen alternative.

Right
The Way of the Gentle Hand Feat changes your Monks Flurry of Attacks to preclude flurry against the target of the initial attack and provides an At-will power : Takedown a stance which prones adjacent enemies when they miss with an attack against the monk, doing that enemies own strength damage against them. If they assume the stance they cannot flurry or vice versi.

Could call the stance "Using their strength against them"

 

[Garthanos]

4e doesnt much feature Feats which pre-req other ones. But it definitely features ones which alter powers and class features and the like. And some which change powers like Cruel Cut Style so they are strikingly different situationally.

In other words we do have precedent for this kind of thing. Even though its rather dramatic.

 

[Tony Vargas]

4e doesnt much feature Feats which pre-req other ones. But it definitely features ones which alter powers and class features and the like. And some which change powers like Cruel Cut Style so they are strikingly different situationally.
In other words we do have precedent for this kind of thing. Even though its rather dramatic.

Nod. The martial style feats modified at-wills for the other roles. Controller at-wills are generally more dramatic, anyway, so a feat that essentially promotes a striker's at-will to controller, well, it'd be dramatic.

 

[Garthanos]

Nod. The martial style feats modified at-wills for the other roles. Controller at-wills are generally more dramatic, anyway, so a feat that essentially promotes a striker's at-will to controller, well, it'd be dramatic.

If however we want other things which gear off of The Way of the Gentle Hand... I am thinking it could be a build option ie selected Class Feature. This would allow us to make powers that switch function to more controller on their own (... independent of things like the pressure point feats. )

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm playing Legend of the Five Rings, the new edition by FFG. Every character has access to some mix of

kata - weapon techniques
invocations - magic
ninjutsu - stealth techniques
shuji - social techniques

Last session one PC - a poet with minimal combat skills - turned the tide of battle by waving a fan at an enemy to distract him, which was a signal to the other PCs to adopt a certain movement pattern that would disorient him. The next turn he barked a command which motivated the other PCs to advance quickly. Thereafter he was able to use actions to direct some peasants who were accompanying the party to compel them to fight. The peasants are basically set dressing. There's effectively an unlimited supply of them, and they're too cowardly to do anything without direction.

After the fight, another samurai bent down to an ally who was near death and told her that her honor was stronger than the steel that had caused her wounds, which stirred her spirit enough that she regained consciousness and stopped bleeding.

 

[Garthanos]

I'm playing Legend of the Five Rings, the new edition by FFG. Every character has access to some mix of

kata - weapon techniques
invocations - magic
ninjutsu - stealth techniques
shuji - social techniques

Last session one PC - a poet with minimal combat skills - turned the tide of battle by waving a fan at an enemy to distract him, which was a signal to the other PCs to adopt a certain movement pattern that would disorient him. The next turn he barked a command which motivated the other PCs to advance quickly. Thereafter he was able to use actions to direct some peasants who were accompanying the party to compel them to fight. The peasants are basically set dressing. There's effectively an unlimited supply of them, and they're too cowardly to do anything without direction.

After the fight, another samurai bent down to an ally who was near death and told her that her honor was stronger than the steel that had caused her wounds, which stirred her spirit enough that she regained consciousness and stopped bleeding.

Definitely Warlord stuff (Sounds like my princess build / lazy lord ) going on... is that under Shuji?

 

[RangerWickett]

Yeah.

Lots of shuji are intended for 'intrigues' - conflict scenes without weapons. Stuff like "Ancestry Unearthed" where you can recall something about a rival's lineage that gives you an advantage in a debate and can embarrass them, or "Shallow Waters" where you determine a gift that would earn the person's favor.

There are also things like "Feigned Opening," where you spend your turn (either in combat or in an intrigue) exposing a convincing vulnerability so that your opponent is distracted, making it easier for your allies to achieve schemes or attacks that target them.

Or "Weight of Duty" where you can, during an intrigue, figure out someone's assigned orders from their lord.

Or "Fanning the Flames" that can daze or enrage someone, which can be pretty handy in both intrigues and battles.

 

[Garthanos]

Basically what we are discussing is a class feature will allow selecting of Hard Style or Soft Style and Soft style will modify the flurries to be less focused ( hence more reliant on taking openings distributed to multiple enemies) and give you a Takedown stance - "using their strength against them" which allows a very controllery effect as a tactical alternative.