Devil's advocate

[DemonLord57]

Well I think it could just as easily be half an half (all the damage dealt by the power is radiant, all the damage dealt by the weapon is fire, so they split it). Wouldn't this mean that a wizard wielding a fire staff would have all of his powers dealing half fire damage, and he could just take astral fire to deal extra damage on all of his spells? Or any other keyword related ability (I'm thinking the large group of feats, especially lasting frost+winter touched) for that matter.

Maybe that is what WotC intended and obviously thats what CS has responded. Do you know if anyone asked specifically about combos like the Doomsayer ability? It seems like forcing someone to roll twice for saves on sleep because your holding a wand with a fear spell on it and your buddy is a doomsayer should* make even a customer service rep think twice.

*Hopefully? My faith in them dwindles with each response I here about

The rules for how powers with multiple damage keywords work on are on page 55. Yes, the feats about keywords are awesome with the weapon to go with them. Specifically, I like Psychic Lock, Solid Sound, and Resounding Thunder. Lightning Arc looks like it might be nice for a Daggermaster.

I have no idea if they've specifically mentioned this, but so far they've been very clear about it applying. Honestly, if they changed their minds because an example like this was given, I'd lose all faith in them. Rules are rules, and the proper interpretation is not dependent on whether they break the game. If it breaks the game, an errata should be made (I don't think it does, though, it just makes Doomsayer actually good at something), but until the errata is made (or houserules are applied), the rules are still clear.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

Really? I found it to be a beast. A ranger w/ an 18 dex and lethal hunter will do 1d10+4+1d8 to his quarry, and that's without any special attacks, just a basic ranged shot. He can do this at a huge range, staying away from enemies, doesn't have the old penalties of firing in melee, and with some of his powers, he can hit more than one enemy at a time, for double that damage! I'm confident the archer ranger is highly potent and on the same power level as an optimized warlock or rogue.

On their own their not the greatest, but combined with powers for the 2H style and power attack, they become very, very decent.

I wouldn't boost the damage for a greatsword, as it's already in competition with the greataxe, and boosting the damage would mean it does equal damage and you'll hit more often with it. It would make it better than the greataxe by too much.

I think the OP was referring to Archery Ranger Style. Your example is the same for a Ranger with either style. +2 ac against OAs is what the Archery style gives you, vs Toughness which is a benefit to anyone. Then in addition for the melee hunter you can wield a normal weapon in your off hand instead of an off hand weapon. Two weapon style is far better. That is what he meant by Archery style sucks.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

The rules for how powers with multiple damage keywords work on are on page 55. Yes, the feats about keywords are awesome with the weapon to go with them. Specifically, I like Psychic Lock, Solid Sound, and Resounding Thunder. Lightning Arc looks like it might be nice for a Daggermaster.

I have no idea if they've specifically mentioned this, but so far they've been very clear about it applying. Honestly, if they changed their minds because an example like this was given, I'd lose all faith in them. Rules are rules, and the proper interpretation is not dependent on whether they break the game. If it breaks the game, an errata should be made (I don't think it does, though, it just makes Doomsayer actually good at something), but until the errata is made (or houserules are applied), the rules are still clear.

I dont think it is super game breaking (it can be, but so can many, many, other things that I don't think should really be changed) its just incredibly non-sensical. At this point though I'm just going to agree to disagree with customer service(about how I think the rule should be applied, not what I the rules actually say, in other words, make a house rule). I just don't think it makes much sense to apply the effects of a keyword if an item only has anything to do with that keyword once per day (as in the fear-wand example). Also it opens up a lot of crazy combos I don't really want in the game I'm playing.

Thanks for catching me up on the official rulings though.

 

[Tony Vargas]

One of the things i've seen in 4e so far is that certain passages should have been written in bold font+ type in order to understate the RAW. A couple other examples of this have already popped up on this forum, can't remember off the top me head, though...

This is nothing new for WotC. For instance, in 3e, the ability to combine drawing a weapon with a move was found only in a footnote to one table.

 

[Stalker0]

Just as a note, even if you did not include 2[w], 3[w], and other multipliers....a bump in weapon die vs +1 to damage is STILL not the same!

The reason is critical hits. A d8 does 4.5 damage on average, but 8 on a crit. Just to keep it simple, if we assume the weapon hits 100% of the time, the new average damage would be 4.675.

For a d10, its 5.5 on average, 10 on a crit, and the crit added average is 5.725. That's an increase of 1.05, not 1. Normally this is a very small bonus, but keep in mind its magnifies with the die multipliers. That means a 3[w] does even more damage with a d10 vs a d8 then was originally shown.

I personally think TWF and archery are fine. I recognize that people think the TWF path is better...but to me, if I'm a bow ranger, I'm not going to use the TWF benefit. What's the point, I'm far better with a bow. So the question is do I prefer defensive mobility or toughness.

The greatsword is fine damage wise when you remember that the GS is NOT a the damage dealing weapon of the Two handed block....it is the effect weapon. If your using powers that do raw damage, don't use a sword, use an axe. If your doing more effects like proning, stunning, dazing, etc...the damage isn't as important as your ability to hit and make that effect happen. In that case, the +1 to attack is far more useful.