Dex modifiers when unconscious

[Lord Vangarel]

A question that comes up fairly often in our campaigns occurs when a creature drops to -1 hit points or fall unconscious, does it's Dex become the equivalent of 0 Dex or just no Dex bonus?

For example, say a creature with a +2 Dex bonus falls unconscious, it drops to the floor making it prone and also cannot react to attacks, therefore is it's Dex 0 giving a further -5 penalty to AC or does it just lose the +2 it used to get from Dex?

 

[hong]

A creature that is helpless is treated as if it has 0 Dex, which means a -5 penalty. Moreover, enemies get a +4 bonus to hit it in melee. See the DMG condition summary on p.84.

 

[Li Shenron]

In general I would say that an unconscious creature is treated as having the following stats (they are not damaged, and are still the full value when the creature is brought back to 0 hp):

Strength 0
Dexterity 0
Constitution = as before
Intelligence none
Wisdom none (as an object)
Charisma none (as an object)

...although only Dexterity is useful to know and the others are just for the fun of it . It is my interpretation for the others, since rules don't say it, but with no mental scores you are immune to mind-affecting spells.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

Thank's for clearing it up.

 

[Berk]

Intelligence none
Wisdom none (as an object)
Charisma none (as an object)

They still have an intelligence.

They still have a wisdom.

They still have a charisma.

Being unconscious doesn't effect your intellect, your acquired knowledge, or your influence of others. Just because you are unconscious you aren't an object, now if you were dead then you would be an object. =o)

 

[shilsen]

What Berk said.

 

[Artoomis]

It's all in the rules:

Dying
When a character's current hit points drop to between -1 and -9 inclusive, the character is dying. The character immediately falls unconscious and can take no actions. At the end of each round (starting with the round in which the character dropped below 0), roll d% to see whether the character stabilizes. The character has a 10% chance to become stable. If the character doesn't, the character loses 1 hit point.

Unconscious
Knocked out and helpless.

Helpless
Bound, held, sleeping, paralyzed, or unconscious characters are helpless. Enemies can make advantageous attacks against helpless characters, or even deliver a usually lethal coup de grace. A melee attack against a helpless character is at a +4 bonus on the attack roll (equivalent to attacking a prone target). A ranged attack gets no special bonus. A helpless defender can't use any Dexterity bonus to AC. In fact, his Dexterity score is treated as if it were 0 and his Dexterity modifier to AC were -5 (and a rogue can sneak attack him).

Note that your STR is not 0, but it generally does not really matter since you can take no actions. No other stats change, of course, though circumstance modifers may be appropriate.

 

[Li Shenron]

They still have an intelligence.

They still have a wisdom.

They still have a charisma.

Being unconscious doesn't effect your intellect, your acquired knowledge, or your influence of others. Just because you are unconscious you aren't an object, now if you were dead then you would be an object. =o)

As I was trying to say in my post, they still have the same Int, Cha, Wis, Str, Dex and Con altogether, they are not damaged at all, they are treated as having Dex 0 because they can't use it (can't dodge, can't aim, can't use reflexes...).

In exactly the same way you can say they are treated as having Int 0 for example because they can't cast Wiz spells, can't recall Knowledge, can't think, can't remember, can't learn skills...

In exactly the same way you can say they are treated as having Cha 0 for example because they can't interact with other people, can't Bluff...

In exactly the same way you can say they are treated as having Wis 0 for example because they can't spot, can't listen (although they may unconsciously hear something), can't cast Divine spells, can't sense motive...

In exactly the same way you can say they are treated as having Str 0 for example because they can't exert any force, can't fight...

Constitution is the only different thing: except for Concentration (which you don't need when unconscious), Constitution is generally used as a reactive ability, and since your metabolism still function, you can still be poisoned, you can still resist a spell that requires a Fort save, you still have extra hp to your total (although you're below 0 so you don't care at all )...

These were just my ideas, but you don't really need to know all this, and in fact there's no mention in the rule, I was just extrapolating . It was important they mentioned Dex because you can still be attacked and in the case it should have been made clear that you could not dodge at all.

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

In exactly the same way you can say they are treated as having Wis 0 for example because they can't spot, can't listen (although they may unconsciously hear something), can't cast Divine spells, can't sense motive...

How about Will saves? I'm unaware of anything that says you automatically fail a will save while unconscious. I don't even think I'd go with the Wis 0 (-5) bit. So your example doesn't really hold.

 

[Berk]

As I was trying to say in my post, they still have the same Int, Cha, Wis, Str, Dex and Con altogether, they are not damaged at all, they are treated as having Dex 0 because they can't use it (can't dodge, can't aim, can't use reflexes...).

In exactly the same way you can say they are treated as having Int 0 for example because they can't cast Wiz spells, can't recall Knowledge, can't think, can't remember, can't learn skills...

In exactly the same way you can say they are treated as having Cha 0 for example because they can't interact with other people, can't Bluff...

In exactly the same way you can say they are treated as having Wis 0 for example because they can't spot, can't listen (although they may unconsciously hear something), can't cast Divine spells, can't sense motive...

In exactly the same way you can say they are treated as having Str 0 for example because they can't exert any force, can't fight...

Constitution is the only different thing: except for Concentration (which you don't need when unconscious), Constitution is generally used as a reactive ability, and since your metabolism still function, you can still be poisoned, you can still resist a spell that requires a Fort save, you still have extra hp to your total (although you're below 0 so you don't care at all )...

These were just my ideas, but you don't really need to know all this, and in fact there's no mention in the rule, I was just extrapolating . It was important they mentioned Dex because you can still be attacked and in the case it should have been made clear that you could not dodge at all.

None of your examples hold water really. Since you want to get "technical" then I will also. =o) You aren't treated as having 0 int,wis,cha while unconscious.

Int and wis stay the same because you don't get brain damage from being unconscious, in DND anyways. You don't forget things you know, they don't become things you knew. You still have all the mental capacity that you had before you were unconscious. Int and wis determine mental capacity and things known. You are still as mentaly active when you are unconscious as when you conscious.

Cha stays the same because you can still effect the outside world with how you look. Looks are part of personal magnetism which cha mainly represents, not the looks but the personal magnetism. Your cha determines how you effect the world around you, which can still be done while unconscious.

And Happy Holidays All!!! =o)