Diaglo: What's so great about OD&D?

[rogueattorney]

Most people, most gamers, most D&D players, have never played, seen, or even heard of the 1974 version of D&D. At best they know a version came out in that year that apparently spun off of Chainmail, but not anything about the game itself (just that it probably was a derivative of an old wargame). Most gamers I've ever talked to assumed AD&D (1e) or those old boxed sets were the first edition of the game.... <snip> To the overwhelming majority of gamers, OD&D is at best a historic footnote, a interesting factoid that there was a version of the game before AD&D 1st Edition or the old Boxed Sets.

Then "most gamers" haven't the slightest clue about the history of the game they supposedly know and love. If that's really the case, you can hardly blame Diaglo for broadcasting far and wide his love for his favorite version.

I've only even seen those three little booklets once, and that was on display at Gen Con. In almost a decade of gaming, I've only ever met one person who has even played OD&D, and they had not played in a quarter-century.

They're really not particularly uncommon, with at least 80,000 copies in print from 1974 to 1979. There are so many still in circulation that in 10 years, they'll be easier to find and probably cheaper than most non-WotC d20 stuff that sees print runs of a couple thousand. If you're not seeing them, it's probably because you're not looking...

http://cgi.ebay.com/DUNGEONS-DRAGON...ryZ44114QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/1974-Dungeons-D...oryZ2545QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/dungeons-dragon...ryZ44112QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There's three auctions I found in 30 second of looking.

Claiming that all D&D is a poor imitation of something that came 30 years before in a limited release and most people have only a vague idea about is going to be taken by most people as utterly unbelievable.

All the more reason to for Diaglo to keeping harping on it.

Claiming that the current edition of D&D isn't even really D&D at all flies in the face of the definitions most people have of D&D. Your descriptions of a super-rules-light OD&D clash with an entire generation who grew up on AD&D and segued into D&D3e, the millions of people who buy 3e and expect and want D&D to be a game with rules and options for almost any situation, instead of a few tiny pamphlets where the DM is expected to pretty much make it all up as he goes along.... <snip> Thus, to most gamers, OD&D is not D&D, it is an early precursor to todays D&D.

If the definition that "most people" have of D&D cannot include the original game called D&D, then the definition "most people" have for D&D is wrong.

R.A.

 

[Nomad4life]

I'm actually curious about Blue Rose. I like the look of it; the simplicity of the rules reminds me of the first 3E campaign I ran, back before the PHB came out. I relied upon some 2E rules, Eric Noah's original D&D 3E hint site, and my own creativity. It was pretty basic but everyone loved that campaign.

BR has the second-best system of game mechanics I’ve ever seen in 15 years of gaming. It is a masterpiece of rules-light systems.

However, the default setting itself only appeals to a small window of gamers. For this reason, I recommend looking into True 20 as well; it clears up a lot of hold-overs from D&D that were left in BR, and can be modified to run just about any setting, from traditional D&D to Star Wars.

 

[wingsandsword]

Then "most gamers" haven't the slightest clue about the history of the game they supposedly know and love.

So, you're blaming people for not knowing about a relatively small print-run product which came out in many cases well before they were born, was out of print before they were born, and is generally only talked about by a small and outspoken minority? Also, you only "supposedly" love D&D unless you know the detailed history of OD&D? Give me a break.

They're really not particularly uncommon, with at least 80,000 copies in print from 1974 to 1979. There are so many still in circulation that in 10 years, they'll be easier to find and probably cheaper than most non-WotC d20 stuff that sees print runs of a couple thousand. If you're not seeing them, it's probably because you're not looking...

Yes, I haven't been looking, because I don't really care about them. I've never seen them at my FLGS, even in their glass case where they keep a 1st Edition Deities & Demigods with the Cthuhlu Mythos and a few other rare and obscure items. I've never seen them in a used-game bin for sale, I've never known of anybody to play a game of it in any gaming group I know of, and aside from people I've met on the internet I've never known of anybody to play it in the last quarter century. I did see them at Gen Con this year, one copy, which was being sold for $100, and somebody bought it even saying at the time it was being bought as a historic relic and display piece. The one person I know in real life who actually played OD&D even said they dumped it for AD&D the moment it came out, and was hard-pressed to remember anything about OD&D than it existed and was some tiny little rulebooks.

If the definition that "most people" have of D&D cannot include the original game called D&D, then the definition "most people" have for D&D is wrong.

"most people"? you really think that OD&D has more of a following or more support than 3rd edition or AD&D? How many OD&D games are run at Gen Con every year? Why is it that on the largest gaming message boards on the internet (a place that already amplifies minorities by making even small things appear large) OD&D fans are a strong minority. Realize that OD&D supporters are a very tiny, and very outspoken minority of the D&D playing population. If you're happy playing that game, go ahead, we don't care, but don't try and tell us that our game isn't D&D because it's too complicated and new but yours is because it came first and was so simple.

People know the D&D they grew up with, that's what defines D&D to them and frankly, if you're under 40 that version of D&D is probably not OD&D. Yes, D&D has changed a lot in the last 30 years, and to people who came in at any time after the advent of 1e AD&D (the overwhelming majority of gamers), the play style of OD&D isn't going to seem much like what they expect from D&D.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

OD&D is the first version of the D&D ruleset with has went through many variations, including a massive change of the rules for the 3.x editions. If people don't think that the original D&D is infact the original D&D they are wrong. There is no way around that. Now they may have a good reason for thier ignorance in this regard, like they never encountered the original rules, that's fine. But to try and say that OD&D isn't D&D is, to be frank, quite stupid. Followings don't matter, poeple playing it does not make a difference. It is the first version of the game. It is the original D&D, end of story.

P.S.

On a message board that generally has remarkably good grammar and spelling from its contributors for a net forum, you say "EVAR" and "ain't" as a grown man who should know better.

What is that about? A lot of people use semi-serious variations of speech in 'net posting. Should we all make sure to speak in the proper Queen's English? A lot of poeple post on forums in a very casual way that is closer to regular speech. Are you assuming the role of the grammer police?

 

[Odhanan]

First off, I agree with wingsandsword that for many people, including myself, "D&D" does not mean just the white box edition of D&D. D&D that's a game and a style of RPG gameplay (if not artform and style for different kinds of art pieces, games and products far and wide). That's OD&D AND D&D all editions AND AD&D all editions put together. I don't agree with the "pale imitation" part of Diaglo's comment. I think OD&D white box is as different from 3E as say, Dark Eye RPG is. I mean: that's a different style of game design altogether. But one or the other isn't "the one true D&D". That would be just negating evolutions that were and are good so far as customers (not just me, Diaglo or anyone else individually) are concerned.

However, I really don't agree with this:

Games do bear some resemblence to computer software: both are sets of instructions that are executed to achieve a goal, and over time improvements in design technique means that revisions come out that provide more options or better methods of accomplishing your goals.

Thus, to most gamers, OD&D is not D&D, it is an early precursor to todays D&D.

I don't care for the "many people think" part that much, but the bottom line I don't agree with. RPG systems are definitely not OS. They are not automatically thought of as sets of instructions that are executed to achieve "a goal". They are sets of suggestions that may be executed to achieve a good gaming session (i.e. making everyone around the table happy). It's not automated, it is not self-sufficient, and the goal of game design isn't meta-operative (in the sense that an OS is built to allow an easy, straightforward use of the computer by non-informatician users - ergonomy, while ergonomy is just one of the means of game design to provide the right tools to the GM and the players so that they have an optimum gaming experience).

Well perhaps I'm just sidetracking here. Point is: this comparison just doesn't seem right to me. That would be like comparing Literature and Science and judging one according to the logic of the other.

 

[diaglo]

my apologies for using the words "ain't and EVAR". i picked up ain't as a kid and have hardly ever broken myself of the habit.

as for EVAR. i picked that up here. a close friend, Angelsboi, used to use it quite often. both in his posts and in person when i gamed with him. if you would prefer me to use another word you can kiss my arse.

 

[Templeton580]

...you can kiss my arse.

I'm only surprised it took 4 pages to get there.

 

[wingsandsword]

What is that about? A lot of people use semi-serious variations of speech in 'net posting. Should we all make sure to speak in the proper Queen's English? A lot of poeple post on forums in a very casual way that is closer to regular speech. Are you assuming the role of the grammer police?

No, but he wanted to know why people kept thinking he was joking when he makes his claims about OD&D. Frankly, someone who posts a verbatim catchphrase over and over as his schtick, intentionally riddled with errors (like "d02") is somebody I'm going to by defintion take less seriously, just as if he was writing in leetspeak. That's why I, at least, always took his repeated posts as a joke.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

d02 is a reference to the classic thread, "my hat of d02 knows no limits".

 

[diaglo]

d02 is a reference to the classic thread, "my hat of d02 knows no limits".

quoted for truth.