Did Gygax owe a bit of thanks to WotC?

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Am I just imagining it, or have some folks taken serious offense at my OP?

You're not imagining it.

 

[The Little Raven]

I find it ironic that Gygax is apparently considered highly honorable for stating his honest opinions on other people and things, even when very negative. But anyone who even suggests something negative about Gygax is considered awful.

Roleplayers, like many of other groups, tend to "canonize" key figures in their group after they die. It became much harder to have discussions involving criticism of his writing style or game design philosophy after his death, as that kind of event really touches people emotionally.

 

[pawsplay]

I find it ironic that Gygax is apparently considered highly honorable for stating his honest opinions on other people and things, even when very negative. But anyone who even suggests something negative about Gygax is considered awful.

Bullgrit

No, not really. Plenty of people have dogged Gary over the years for some of the peculier things he's said, myself included. You are on the receiving end of scorn for insulting a well-liked and revered dead guy. The fact that you started a thread specifically for the purpose of dancing on his bones has probably drawn more than the usual flak.

 

[booboo]

this thread is a bunch of CRAP

Moderator note: Folks, this post is what we commonly call a "threadcrap". It adds nothing but negativity. If you feel this way about a thread, please, just walk away and let those souls who enjoy it do so.

And, of course, if you see threadcrap, just ignore it.

 

[Bullgrit]

You are on the receiving end of scorn for insulting a well-liked and revered dead guy. The fact that you started a thread specifically for the purpose of dancing on his bones has probably drawn more than the usual flak.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I've insulted? In what way, (please be precise, 'cause I'm dense), have I insulted Gary Gygax?

I hold EGG in very high regard for his imagination, creativity, knowledge of history and fantasy, and his writing style. I still read something of his work fairly often -- there are about two dozen of his books within sight of my desk as I write this. My favorite D&D modules were written by him. I have quoted him many, many times in support of what I think are good aspects of D&D and gaming in general.

But, like most mortals, he had flaws, and he made mistakes. If we are only allowed to invoke his name in the most hallowed manner, then we are raising him from a very talented and creative writer to a deity. I don't think he would want that. I don't think he would be comfortable with that.

Bullgrit

 

[Longtooth Studios]

Gamers and heroes go well together. This is one of the guys who created the experience, a pioneer. Glory, honor and reverence are expected for such an accomplishment.
Since he isn't here to defend himself, he has plenty of fans to champion the cause. Objectivity gets lost in the shadow of heroes, or we would have none to speak of.

 

[pawsplay]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I've insulted? In what way, (please be precise, 'cause I'm dense), have I insulted Gary Gygax?

Here, let me help you.

But as time moved on, he seemed to take a more and more negative stance on the game. He would often insult it as an abomination from his true D&D.

It seemed that the more fans who found him, due to his exposure because of the new company and new edition, the more negative he got toward the company and the game. I found this disappointing and distasteful. I mean, the company seemed to treat him well, (considering they didn't have to treat him at all), and the resurge in popularity of the latest edition of the game supported his own resurgance in notierity.

When given an audience through the official gaming media, he was neutral, (not a problem with me), but when talking elsewhere, like on ENWorld or Dragonsfoot, or in interviews, he essentially put down the new company and the new game. This just struck me as . . . "impolite."

Now, it's not like this was out of character for him -- just check old issues of Dragon magazines to see him give negative opinions. But that was usually toward competitors.

In the last few years that he acted like this, it annoyed me, as an observer. I felt he owed a little something to the company and the game that brought him back out of relative obscurity. Not that he should have been all gushy/smoochy with WotC and new D&D. But he could at least not bad mouth them behind their backs. I mean, WotC and new D&D did nothing bad to or for him – in fact, they both did good to and for him.

 

[jdrakeh]

I don't think that Gary Gygax owed WotC any thanks, no. Also, don't play coy about some of the responses you've provoked. You post highly controversial threads quite regularly and quite regularly they elicit the type of response you see here. I refuse to believe that you're completely oblivious to that behavior given the obvious care that has gone into crafting your posts.

 

[Umbran]

Folks,

It seems that some of you may be trying to make this personal. Please address the logic of the argument, and validity of the points themselves, not the person of the poster. Thank you.

 

[Henry]

If Gary were alive, I have the feeling that he'd proabably respond something to the effect of "I owe WotC the exact amount of thanks I've given them. You are, of course entitled to your own opinion." I kinda dicker back and forth about whether he'd throw a "Bah!" in there somewhere or not.

Given that Gary is now passed on, however, debating whether he owed anyone a "debt of thanks" is kinda moot. Interwyrm said it best:

The guy is dead. I'm sure, like many RPG geeks, he had very strong opinions and wasn't too good at knowing when to keep them to himself. That doesn't matter. He was instrumental in creating this hobby, even if he hasn't carried it to where it is today.

I don't think it is anyone's place to say now that "he didn't show enough gratitude". He did what he did. He's dead now, and WOTC's D&D is alive in spite of or because of Gary's existence.

From what I've read, he had good reason to be bitter about D&D. There's no need to fault him for it.