Did Gygax owe a bit of thanks to WotC?

[The Shaman]

I find it ironic that Gygax is apparently considered highly honorable for stating his honest opinions on other people and things, even when very negative. But anyone who even suggests something negative about Gygax is considered awful.

There's been a boatload of criticism directed at EGG over the years, some of which he personally acknowledged as valid and pertinent, so claiming, "[A]nyone who even suggests something negative about Gygax is considered awful,'" is more than a bit disingenuous.

 

[Orius]

I don't believe Gary really owed WotC any thanks after they bought D&D and went out of their way to rebuild the bridges that TSR had burned with both him and Dave. WotC didn't have to do that, but Adkison did what he could to repair relations between the original creators of the game and the company now publishing said game. Let's not forget that after WotC bought TSR, the rulebooks started regularly crediting Gary and Dave for creating the rules in the first place. Whatever animosity Gary had for the 3e might also have been rooted in the fact that it evolved out of 2e AD&D which was published after he had been forced from TSR.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Been reading the thread for a while, but first post here.

Yes EGG is held up on a pedestal (and much easier to get him to stay there after he has passed away) so any thread even mentioning his name is gonna have problems (Not quite edition-war level, but not far off)

That said, this thread has been pretty good.

As for my opinion, neither Gary nor WOTC owed each other anything Gary sold it and WOTC bought it. What WOTC did to try to rebuild bridges was a good act by those WOTC employess, but in no way changes that it is their brand and game to do with what they like.

And it surprises me not at all that EGG did not like where it went. Look at how many players do not like where the game has gone. And we have far less invested in it.

 

[Rykion]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I've insulted? In what way, (please be precise, 'cause I'm dense), have I insulted Gary Gygax?

I hold EGG in very high regard for his imagination, creativity, knowledge of history and fantasy, and his writing style. I still read something of his work fairly often -- there are about two dozen of his books within sight of my desk as I write this. My favorite D&D modules were written by him. I have quoted him many, many times in support of what I think are good aspects of D&D and gaming in general.

But, like most mortals, he had flaws, and he made mistakes. If we are only allowed to invoke his name in the most hallowed manner, then we are raising him from a very talented and creative writer to a deity. I don't think he would want that. I don't think he would be comfortable with that.

Bullgrit

You've written a critical thread about someone you both respected and were thankful for. The criticism you brought up was that Gary was critical of a product made by a company that you feel he might have owed thanks. By posting this thread aren't you doing exactly what you said Gary did? Of course, it is perfectly reasonable for you to disagree with someone and still be thankful to him or her. Isn't it possible that Gary was thankful in some ways to people at WotC, but still disagreed with the way they took his creation?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I've insulted? In what way, (please be precise, 'cause I'm dense), have I insulted Gary Gygax?

I hold EGG in very high regard for his imagination, creativity, knowledge of history and fantasy, and his writing style. I still read something of his work fairly often -- there are about two dozen of his books within sight of my desk as I write this. My favorite D&D modules were written by him. I have quoted him many, many times in support of what I think are good aspects of D&D and gaming in general.

But, like most mortals, he had flaws, and he made mistakes. If we are only allowed to invoke his name in the most hallowed manner, then we are raising him from a very talented and creative writer to a deity. I don't think he would want that. I don't think he would be comfortable with that.

Bullgrit

I am not sure you have insulted Gary, that would really up to Gary and I am not him. I am sure there are people that would take offense on his behalf.
Now, I do not believe that you have established your original post on any sound footing. Gary founded TSR and co-created D&D/AD&D (they are pretty much the same for the purposes of this thread and all esle is theology). So for divers reasons Gary looses control of TSR and subsequently it goes bust. The husk is bought by WoTC and 3.0 is released. Gary is paid money to write in Dragon and so forth and later says some negative stuff on 3e. Am I right so far?
So what? The gist seems to be that Gary would have languished in obscurity in Lake Geneva with out WotC. I would say not, There are still people playing OD&D and AD&D 1 and so forth. The nature of the modern internet os that pretty much everything is there if you put the effort into discovering it.
Also, from the evidence of post here Gary had an online presence over the last 20 years or so independant of WotC. So I would say that the op premise is unproven. Gary owed WoTC only what he had promised with regards to any contract he had entered into and after that his opinion was his own, the same as anyone else.

 

[Kellri]

Just got off the Ouija-phone with Gary... for a guy with his own mansion in the clouds, he's sure got some anger issues. No sooner had I finished slowly intoning the OP's question (Didn't you owe WOTC thanks, oh great disembodied DM?) than the planchette jumped up and started giving me some world-class ground and pound before burying itself like a knife into the 'NO' spot. Just to make sure it's REALLY Gary, I think I'll ask him 'Why didn't you thank Arneson?' before asking about demi-human level limits again.

 

[F700]

Postulating on the personal opinions of any public figure is futile, given that we're never privy to the behind the scenes goings ons.
Dead ones are even more futile.

 

[Mark]

If Gary were alive, I have the feeling that he'd proabably respond something to the effect of "I owe WotC the exact amount of thanks I've given them. You are, of course entitled to your own opinion." I kinda dicker back and forth about whether he'd throw a "Bah!" in there somewhere or not.

You must spread some Experience Points around . . .

 

[The Shaman]

You must spread some Experience Points around . . .

Covered.