Did I make a mistake - Gestalt, EL, and testy players

[the Jester]

Low level pcs are fragile. When one survives it makes it all the more special.

It now sounds as though one pc fought one opponent, yes? Your player should get over himself if he thinks that's not fair. I wouldn't nave much patience for tantrums like that imc.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

The ranger/rogue gestalt is one of the weaker combo's - there is much duplication. Anyhoo, neither class can out tank a fighter so why on earth did said character play to the fighter's strength? This sounds more a case of buying into oneselfs PR and getting slapped with the rude 'reality'.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

It was probably a hard encounter. Gestalt PCs still have a single HD, right? So you've got 3 PCs with <d10 hp against three NPCs with >d10hp ... all armed with weapons that do 1d8+hp damage when they connect.

It's just how low level encounters go ... when you've got 1d10hp, even, that 1d12+3 Orc-With-Greataxe is a mildly lucky whack away from taking you out of the game.

For the last two years, I haven't run any 1st level games. Too touch-and-go. 2nd or 3rd level gives you a little cushion in terms of HP, a little more in terms of abilities, and the XP goals for those low levels are usually met once-per-session ANYWAY so you're not missing too much.

--fje

 

[Pbartender]

The thing to remember about Gestalt characters is...

They may get the best of everything, they may make twice as many special abilities. But they still only have hit dice equal to their level, and they still can only do so many things per round.

It doesn't matter how many spells a first level Gestalt Cleric-Wizard has, he can still only cast one of them a round, and he'll still never have more than 13 hit points (and only if he is a particularly tough dwarf or gnome).

 

[lonesoldier]

Don't worry about it, if you don't get a player (ER! Character...yes that's it) killed every now and then, you are not putting against tough enough encounters.

TPK encounters every two months :b

My players phear, make them respect you.

 

[Runesong42]

First level fighters in breastplate and shield = hard as hell to hit. That AC 17 means that, even with a STR 18, a level 1 character still needs to roll at least a 12 to hit.

It sounds like the NPC warriors had the advantage over the PC's. Three fighters at level 1 = ECL 3, which means (by definition of ECL) that a party of four 3rd-level characters should be sufficient to challenge the enemies.

* Was the R/Ro alone, skulking about pointman-like, or were the PC's together when the attack happened?
* Did you give the R/Ro a Spot/Listen check to see if he would notice the oncoming murderer?
* Did the R/Ro realize he was outmatched and attempt to surrender/retreat/fall back to his allies?
* Did the R/Ro have an opportunity to try other combat tricks, like disarm, or grappling? (Risky business at 1st level, but better to try and die than do nothing and die)

Barring that, why couldn't the PC's rescue him, or 'bind his wounds'? Why did the NPC have to kill to PC?

All questions to consider, imo.

 

[DaveMage]

As others have said, the CR of the encounter was 3, and that's on par for a party of *four* gestalt level 1 PCs, although when dealing with 1st level PCs, the reality is a bit different.

*Any* of those fighters could take out a gestalt PC with 1 hit (presuming the fighters were using longswords, and a +2 strength bonus). 1 hit can cause 10 hp damage - death to all but fighter-type 1st-level PCs.

 

[Thanee]

Minor nitpick... neither the ECL nor the CR of the encounter was 3.
It was the EL (Encounter Level) which was (about) 3.

Bye
Thanee

 

[DaveMage]

Minor nitpick... neither the ECL nor the CR of the encounter was 3.
It was the EL (Encounter Level) which was (about) 3.

Bye
Thanee

I stand corrected.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Depending on the setup that was quite a tough encounter, but not ludicrously so. Certainly wouldn't put it in the category of being 'unfair'. Depending on the setup/tactics/luck it could even have been quite easy.

Ah well, it happens... That's first level DnD for you... Think the other player was right. Like someone said, 3 kobolds could have easily killed the PC if dice were being mean. Never mind what an angry housecat is capable of.

It's one of the reasons I prefer subdual damage encounters at 1st level. Clubs all the way! Have the bad guys want to take prisoners for whatever reason. But then again, I'm probably too soft on my players...

Oh dear with the rage. That's a little unfortunate. Has the player calmed down yet? They do sound rather highly strung. So, one flipped out, one shrugged his shoulders - what did the 3rd player think?