Did I overreact or is my DM a moron? RANT
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Kahuna Burger
First Post
I'm gonna guess if you divde the world into drill sergeants kicking and mommy's holding hands that theres a lot of folk here whose campaigns you don't have to worry about joining...Kapalen said:
Bardsandsages
First Post
gizmo33 said:
Yeah, pretty much the same thing I was thinking. Being a GM is HARD. You have to keep up with what the PCs are doing, what the NPCs are doing, where your storyline is going, and keep track of all the rules while making sure everyone has fun. And instead of helping this new GM, the players decided to make his life a living hell.
Altamont Ravenard
Explorer
I'm sorry to say that this probably isn't helping it.loki44 said:
As to the situation at hand, I certainly don't want to insult your group, but it seems to me that there were a lot of out-of-control teenage hormones during that game. I'm surprised Senor didn't do anything to bring things back to normal, since he's probably the most mature person in your group and one with the most gaming experience. If you all look up to him, why not ask him what he thought about the last game, try to have him make some constructive criticism. It's of course putting him on the stand so to speak, but if you say that he was an amazing DM, your new DM might want to learn a few things from him.
This said, I agree with you that the DM made some mistakes. He seems to be still learning the game, and you all seem to be acting quite confrontational. DM NPCs that totally outshine the PC are of course a bad idea. Railroading is usually a bad idea. Playing favorites with PCs is usually a bad idea too.
I agree with the poster that said "let's pretend last game never happened" even if it's quite extreme. I'd suggest to have an out-of-game talk about style of play before your next session.
Y'all need to take a chill pill, yo
AR
Oryan77
Adventurer
You sure the DM didn't just realize he threw an encounter at you that was too hard and he was using the DMNPC to fix his mistake by stealing your kills? Not that that is a good way to fix an overpowered encounter, but he's new and it is an easy quick fix.
The tone in your post makes it sound like you have a problem with some of these players & DM besides just that campaign. Maybe you guys need a break. Or see if the DM will do some solo games for a few days with a couple of you guys. That way it's more personal and you can help him get a hang of DM'ing a little better. Instead of the whole table going at his throat about everything; a one on one game might help him overcome his faults more. Even if he wants you to "whip him into shape" like you are, it's affecting his DM'ing ability and it's affecting your enjoyment of being a player in his game. If you want to "whip him into shape", grill him like that in a solo game. It's impossible for a DM to keep his session running smoothly when he's being literally hassled by 4 other guys all at once. You posting here complaining about his DM'ing skills or your suicide tantrum proves your guys method isn't working for your group.
I would also rethink your opinions on suiciding characters and claiming your own kills. That's going to cause problems in the group every time....and it already has. You may think it's perfectly reasonable, but it's already ruined one session that we know of. Even if odds are against me & my group, if another character killed himself because of low morale, my PC & myself would be ticked off so much because my PC could die from that. A "hero's" suicide might sound cool for a book or movie, but this is a game. And those actions affect other players. I don't like playing with quitters, and a DM might mean for a battle to be so hard that everyone barely survives. Bringing PC's close to death and fudging things to allow them to come out alive with them thinking they did it on their own is what a good DM does...maybe not all the time, but sometimes those are players favorite memories. There's never an excuse for a suicide. And "claiming" kills is just the same. If the rest of the group isn't playing along with the Legolas vs Gimli track record, it's annoying. Most adventurers would welcome the help to avoid a flesh wound. Most people also want to gang up on a creature to kill it faster and end the encounter sooner so you use less resources (cures, spells, ect).
It just sounds too much like you're wanting to play a DM vs Player game AND a Player vs Player game.
The tone in your post makes it sound like you have a problem with some of these players & DM besides just that campaign. Maybe you guys need a break. Or see if the DM will do some solo games for a few days with a couple of you guys. That way it's more personal and you can help him get a hang of DM'ing a little better. Instead of the whole table going at his throat about everything; a one on one game might help him overcome his faults more. Even if he wants you to "whip him into shape" like you are, it's affecting his DM'ing ability and it's affecting your enjoyment of being a player in his game. If you want to "whip him into shape", grill him like that in a solo game. It's impossible for a DM to keep his session running smoothly when he's being literally hassled by 4 other guys all at once. You posting here complaining about his DM'ing skills or your suicide tantrum proves your guys method isn't working for your group.
I would also rethink your opinions on suiciding characters and claiming your own kills. That's going to cause problems in the group every time....and it already has. You may think it's perfectly reasonable, but it's already ruined one session that we know of. Even if odds are against me & my group, if another character killed himself because of low morale, my PC & myself would be ticked off so much because my PC could die from that. A "hero's" suicide might sound cool for a book or movie, but this is a game. And those actions affect other players. I don't like playing with quitters, and a DM might mean for a battle to be so hard that everyone barely survives. Bringing PC's close to death and fudging things to allow them to come out alive with them thinking they did it on their own is what a good DM does...maybe not all the time, but sometimes those are players favorite memories. There's never an excuse for a suicide. And "claiming" kills is just the same. If the rest of the group isn't playing along with the Legolas vs Gimli track record, it's annoying. Most adventurers would welcome the help to avoid a flesh wound. Most people also want to gang up on a creature to kill it faster and end the encounter sooner so you use less resources (cures, spells, ect).
It just sounds too much like you're wanting to play a DM vs Player game AND a Player vs Player game.
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Eye Tyrant
First Post
Where's the "vet" during all this?? Seriously, If I were gaming with a bunch of teens and I was twice there age I would feel compelled to step in and mediate before things got nasty. But that's just me, that's also why I game with folks my age (not that there is anything wrong with playing with people younger then you or that by gaming in your age group prevents arguments).
You definitely need to hash out the problems OOC and away from the table.
Good luck!
You definitely need to hash out the problems OOC and away from the table.
Good luck!
Duncan Haldane
Explorer
Kapalen said:
You claim he's your friend yet you say this about him. Re-read your first post, slowly. It sounds like you are dismissive about his abilities as a DM. It sounds like you think he is stupid and has no idea how to DM. It sounds like you intend not to enjoy the game.
It sounded more like you were 12-14 than 16-19.
Most DMs go through a phase of the DMPC. Most get past it.
The DM was being pressured to run "just one more combat", something he hadn't planned. Some can do that well, others can't. I would never expect a new DM to do it well.
I would suggest that your DM should try running some published adventures. Much of the difficulty when starting to DM is to build a good storyline that will challenge the characters without overwhelming them; A published adventure should handle that.
Someone else suggested Living Greyhawk (LG). You replied that you were too isolated for that. Well, I would suggest you re-think that a little. You can order LG games and play them without having to have an external DM. I would suggest you could even rotate DMs so you all get a turn to play, and to experience DMing (and so one person doesn't miss out on all the adventures). And, while Living Greyhawk is full of campaign rules about how things must be done for a living campaign, if you don't want to attend a convention or games day and play with other LG players, you don't need to follow those rules.
And, if it matters to you, LG modules are free.
You need to learn to take a few breaths and calm down - it certainly sounds like you have some anger issues; D&D is a game, and it doesn't matter who kills the bad guys, so long as they end up dead. This whole thing of "my kill" seems pretty silly (and childish) to me - after all, isn't it better that the thing ends up dead before it gets another chance to critical you in half? ;-)
One more thing - try to break your sentences into reasonable paragraphs. When you write very large, run-on paragraphs, the reader is made to feel that you are "rushing" to tell them things; it seems like you are talking without taking a breath, and not really thinking about what you are saying - albeit in written form. IMO that undermined your post and made it seem much more angry and insulting than you probably intended.
Good luck, and maybe you need to try being behind the DM screen a little!
Duncan
Imperialus
Explorer
This whole post seems so incredibly ludicrous I scarcely know how to respond. Quite frankly Erics grandmother would have my hide if I voiced exactly what I thought of you and your party members as players so I'll avoid that.
You said right off the bat that this was a new DM who hadn't DMed before. Anytime I'm a player in a game that involves a new DM I do everything in my power to help them. I give them a copy of my character sheet with notes explaining how and why my character will react to a half dozen broad based scenarios. I make sure any relevant abilities I have that he/she might not understand are either copied out onto note cards or tabbed in my book for easy reference.
Not only that but if I am reading your post right you have a paladin who wants to be CE and somehow expects this character to mesh well with an assimar? Amoral campaigns (even if they arn't offically amoral) are even more difficult than standard ones which is only would serve to increase the DM's grief. You claim that your character is "the crazy guy". Fantastic... Just what every new DM needs... an unpredictable character.
If I see something that they may have overlooked I will point it out if I feel confidant that I can find the rule within 20 or 30 seconds. Otherwise I will look it up when I have a chance, stick a bookmark in the relevant page and mention it to the DM at the end of the night as we are tidying up. I do not disrupt the game and undermine his confidence by calling him out in the middle of something while he's already distracted trying to figure out the fort save modifiers for the spell that was just cast on his NPC because I can.
If I was DMing now and I had any of you jackasses in my group questioning every other ruling I made you'd be looking for a new DM in pretty short order.
As far as I see it you got pissy because a DMPC was "stealing your kills"... Ok first you have to understand like other people have mentioned several times DMPC's are a common thing to see emerge from behind the screen early in a DM's career. Sometimes they don't have confidence in their own abilities to gauge encounter difficulties and they want someone to pull your butts out of the fire if they made an encounter too difficult.
If a DM doesn't feel confidant in the idea that the PC's are going to allow themselves to be led at least to a certain degree, and I can only assume that since you challenge his rulings left right and center you probably also challenge his NPC's and refuse to pick up on his attempts to drop plot hooks. He may be resorting to a DMPC just to try and keep you guys within sight of the track. It's my experience that much of the time railroading results just as much from player problems as DM ones.
As for "stealing your kills" you'll have to excuse me but to quote the D&D adverts "someone needs to get out of his basement". Seriously stop playing Everquest, grow up a little and realize that D&D is a TEAM game not a single character out to get "PHAT L3WT AND EP'S!!11!!one!!11I11" You get just as much XP no matter who kills the bad monsters and while some frustration might be acceptable since your character might feel useless by comparison what twisted system of morality could possibly justify your character killing AN ALLY because he killed something that he percived was a very real threat to you. Even more ridiculous (if that is even possible) is the fact that when the DM told you that such an endeavor would be as stupid as it sounds you felt the need to throw yourself on your sword... please explain to me what you could have possibly thought this would accomplish other than to underline how juvenile you obviously are.
You obviously have no respect for how much time and effort someone was willing to put in for your enjoyment and have chosen instead to make said persons life as difficult as possible. I think it’s disgusting and juvenile and I don’t think you deserve a decent DM.
You said right off the bat that this was a new DM who hadn't DMed before. Anytime I'm a player in a game that involves a new DM I do everything in my power to help them. I give them a copy of my character sheet with notes explaining how and why my character will react to a half dozen broad based scenarios. I make sure any relevant abilities I have that he/she might not understand are either copied out onto note cards or tabbed in my book for easy reference.
Not only that but if I am reading your post right you have a paladin who wants to be CE and somehow expects this character to mesh well with an assimar? Amoral campaigns (even if they arn't offically amoral) are even more difficult than standard ones which is only would serve to increase the DM's grief. You claim that your character is "the crazy guy". Fantastic... Just what every new DM needs... an unpredictable character.
If I see something that they may have overlooked I will point it out if I feel confidant that I can find the rule within 20 or 30 seconds. Otherwise I will look it up when I have a chance, stick a bookmark in the relevant page and mention it to the DM at the end of the night as we are tidying up. I do not disrupt the game and undermine his confidence by calling him out in the middle of something while he's already distracted trying to figure out the fort save modifiers for the spell that was just cast on his NPC because I can.
If I was DMing now and I had any of you jackasses in my group questioning every other ruling I made you'd be looking for a new DM in pretty short order.
As far as I see it you got pissy because a DMPC was "stealing your kills"... Ok first you have to understand like other people have mentioned several times DMPC's are a common thing to see emerge from behind the screen early in a DM's career. Sometimes they don't have confidence in their own abilities to gauge encounter difficulties and they want someone to pull your butts out of the fire if they made an encounter too difficult.
If a DM doesn't feel confidant in the idea that the PC's are going to allow themselves to be led at least to a certain degree, and I can only assume that since you challenge his rulings left right and center you probably also challenge his NPC's and refuse to pick up on his attempts to drop plot hooks. He may be resorting to a DMPC just to try and keep you guys within sight of the track. It's my experience that much of the time railroading results just as much from player problems as DM ones.
As for "stealing your kills" you'll have to excuse me but to quote the D&D adverts "someone needs to get out of his basement". Seriously stop playing Everquest, grow up a little and realize that D&D is a TEAM game not a single character out to get "PHAT L3WT AND EP'S!!11!!one!!11I11" You get just as much XP no matter who kills the bad monsters and while some frustration might be acceptable since your character might feel useless by comparison what twisted system of morality could possibly justify your character killing AN ALLY because he killed something that he percived was a very real threat to you. Even more ridiculous (if that is even possible) is the fact that when the DM told you that such an endeavor would be as stupid as it sounds you felt the need to throw yourself on your sword... please explain to me what you could have possibly thought this would accomplish other than to underline how juvenile you obviously are.
You obviously have no respect for how much time and effort someone was willing to put in for your enjoyment and have chosen instead to make said persons life as difficult as possible. I think it’s disgusting and juvenile and I don’t think you deserve a decent DM.
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Chainsaw Mage
First Post
Heh. I *knew* you were a teenager, even before you said so later in the post. Only a teenager would call a Paladin a "pally".
What puzzles me is that your group supposedly contains a 40-year-old. What on earth is a 40-year-old doing playing with a bunch of teenagers? I mean, I just read one message you posted and I want nothing to do with you. Either that 40-something dude in your group is seriously flawed in some way or he's . . . oh, never mind.
Every once in awhile I forget there are teenagers on enworld. Reading someone calling a Paladin a "pally" jolts me back to reality.
Bye
Chainsaw Mage
What puzzles me is that your group supposedly contains a 40-year-old. What on earth is a 40-year-old doing playing with a bunch of teenagers? I mean, I just read one message you posted and I want nothing to do with you. Either that 40-something dude in your group is seriously flawed in some way or he's . . . oh, never mind.
Every once in awhile I forget there are teenagers on enworld. Reading someone calling a Paladin a "pally" jolts me back to reality.
Bye
Chainsaw Mage
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