Did I read the saint right...can heal 1/2 his level per round???

[Sir ThornCrest]

OK that puts the Saint Template well beyond any class I know let alone just a +2 level adjustment. There is no way this is anywhere near fair to the other players. Might as well call it the Saint campaign, and all the othe pc's are there to serve him gee wiz, way to powerful. Can you imagine a Monk with the Vop & Saint Template???oh my omniprent being that would be a sight!

Thorn crest

(I initially thought it was 10 hit pionts per day, but a player e mailed me "nope its per round maxima).

 

[Piratecat]

Like folks said in a different thread, the template is WAY overpowered for its +2 ECL. I would never let a PC start with it.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

It's Fast Healing, yes.

A creature with fast healing has the extraordinary ability to regain hit points at an exceptional rate. Except for what is noted here, fast healing is like natural healing.
At the beginning of each of the creature’s turns, it heals a certain number of hit points (defined in its description).
Unlike regeneration, fast healing does not allow a creature to regrow or reattach lost body parts.
A creature that has taken both nonlethal and lethal damage heals the nonlethal damage first.
Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.
Fast healing does not increase the number of hit points regained when a creature polymorphs.

Check out P.29 in the BoED. The text states that the LA is "artificially low". I supposed it's because the character must have had a flawless track record, must take 3 exalted feats, etc. The character is a frickin' Saint, and every action, every thought, every fiber in his being should be to serve the cause of goodness. Dont forget about the "extraordinary sacrifice" also...

It's not a good idea to balance mechanics with RP restrictions, IMO, such as it is the case here, but there you have it. A character that has not been the paragon of goodness should not acquire the Saint template.

As for a monk with the vow of poverty feat, it's generally assumed that it is in fact an unbalanced combination.

AR

 

[Darkness]

As for a monk with the vow of poverty feat, it's generally assumed that it is in fact an unbalanced combination.

By some people, you mean.

 

[green slime]

Perhaps they mean it is generally assumed by people who haven't actually seen it in play? Or by people who for some reason do not value the ability to actually choose your own equipment?

 

[Corlon]

Every time I get on enworld, the thought of buying BoED gets less and less appealing .

 

[Elric]

Every time I get on enworld, the thought of buying BoED gets less and less appealing .

Vow of Poverty is not overpowered (the opportunity cost of having your items chosen for you is quite high if you are an efficient player). Vow of Peace lets you play a character who can do no harm and I'm sure this will play out very differently from a standard D&D game. The Saint template can be easily fixed by increasing the EL a little.

Monster and template CR/ELs are easy to fix- increase them some. PRCs, spells and feats are much more problematic, because players can't bend as many rules as they want in order to ensure that things stay balanced.

A Monk with Vow of Poverty and the Saint template would not be as good as you think. He would have a template worth more than +2 ECL, but it's a defensive template. Think about this for a second: how much is your character worth to the party if you are exceedingly hard to kill and do roughly 0 damage a round. Answer: unless enemies attack you first, very little.

 

[ThirdWizard]

VoP is also... boring. You know exactly what your character is going to be like throughout its entire life, sans feats and skills. You can't look forward to a new weapon or bracers or some boots. No rings of jumping or carpets of flying... no potions of healing. I'm not saying that the fun in the game is always killing things and take their stuff, but it is nice at times.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

By some people, you mean.

I thought the sentiment was more general than that. I can't say I have seen many threads disproving the fact that monk + VoPov is a little overboard.

If it's not the case and I've made a wrong assumption (because I haven't yet seen that combo in play), then I'm sorry, but I will say that we made 12th level characters for a possible game we'll play in, and even with my best efforts (I am not the best powergamer out there I'll admit), my ~30 STR Goliath Barbarian/Fighter would have had trouble defeating the VoPov monk in the party, and defeating stuff in combat was the ONLY thing he was good at.

AR

 

[Diirk]

If it's not the case and I've made a wrong assumption (because I haven't yet seen that combo in play), then I'm sorry, but I will say that we made 12th level characters for a possible game we'll play in, and even with my best efforts (I am not the best powergamer out there I'll admit), my ~30 STR Goliath Barbarian/Fighter would have had trouble defeating the VoPov monk in the party, and defeating stuff in combat was the ONLY thing he was good at.

Meh I think it would be fairly easy to build a fighter/barb that would have no problem taking down a poverty monk, but player vs player fights aren't a very good measure of balance.