Difficulty Eliminating the Grid

[cignus_pfaccari]

We have two games going.

One is 4e, and we put out the dry erase board that one of us scored into a grid for that.

The other is SR4, and we haven't used a grid for that, but do use some visual aids so people know who's where. There are a few runs coming up that'll need a grid, and I'm trying to decide if we should go 1.5m or 2m per square.

Brad

 

[frankthedm]

What occurred (and, admittedly, it was near the end of a 4 hour session, so folks were starting to fatigue a little) was two PCs bottlenecking the door and a series of traded blows until all the skeletons were killed.

To my understanding, that is what old school groups DID, at least at low level and against foes without the sense to switch to missile weapons. A group in that situation would only "wade out there" when the fighter had plenty of levels under his belt since only then he would be entitled to 1 attack per level each round vs 1HD foes. Basically until the DM told the fighter "You won't be able to make your full allotment of attacks this round because there are not enough foes getting to you" the players should hold out in the hallway.

Bottle necking big groups was and is a viable tactic, even if some players wind up skipping their turns. 'Losing' a few turns is less of a big deal when rounds go by faster and resources are more limited.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Agreed- bottlenecking makes sense.

 

[Argyle King]

I prefer to use a ruler and measure movement in a manner similar to tabletop wargames. As a GM, I feel it allows me more freedom to create encounters and build by game world without needing to fit everything into square patterns. As a player, I find that I start to view the battlefield more as a smooth entity and a picture of what's going on in the game more so than looking at pieces on a game board without the lines of the grid.

 

[steeldragons]

Today, I ran a "New Year, Old School" one shot using the 1981 Moldvay Basic Set. During play, we used a standard 1-inch square Chessex battle grid.

Good gods, man! WHY!? There's no reason those two sentences should be next to each other...Ever!

My intention was simply to have something to look at. In the end, though, I found that we used the grid too much, that we restricted ourselves and our play to the grid.

You're supposed to be using your imagination. You don't need "something to look at"...you should be imagining what you're looking at.

But glad you learned better for next time.

So, is it possible to "go home again"?

Of course!

Is there a balance between square by square control and imagination driven narrative?

Dunno. Never have or will use a 'battlemat/grid" in my play. Player drawn maps...sure...maybe the occasional sketching out necessary for involved combats. So..I couldn't tell ya. Sorry.

On examination of the story your told...I'm inclined to say no. There is not. But balance in pretty much anything is always a nice thing to strive for.

But Have too many years of relying on minis and battlemats ruined my freeform DMing style?

Apparently so. Yes.

Happy New Year!
--SD

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmmm, speaking as a GM that has long used miniatures, even back into the '70s (don't ask why my paladin looks like a Minifigs Prussian... just... don't ask).

Bottlenecks happen - I still design scenarios where I expect a bottleneck. Sometimes to player advantage, sometimes not. Not edition based, I have seen it happen in OD&D at least as often as in Pathfinder.

Grids neither help nor hurt in my experience - though my preference is use a grid for drawing, use a ruler for movement and range.

For a doorway bottleneck in 3.X Bullrush is your friend. Area effect spells help, regardless of edition. (In my AD&D game the paladin and the fighter wore as much protection from fire as they could get....) Skellies... probably not real creative on busting bottlenecks.

Heck, in OD&D - 2e the fighter was typically a dwarf so people could fire over his head....

The Auld Grump

 

[S'mon]

IME, if you have the grid on the table, you will use it. I have no trouble running AD&D or Moldvay (or a clone) online in a text-chatroom game with no map or grid. 4e is the only game I've found myself referring to a grid even in a chatroom game. However, if I put a battlemat on the table, I'll end up using the grid, whatever the game.

So, if you don't want to be grid-locked, IME you need to not use the grid, or minis*, at all.

*If you play AD&D with its 1-minute combat rounds, 120' moves, and abstract positioning within a 10' battlespace, you may be able to use minis without getting locked down. The shorter rounds & movement rates in Moldvay can tend to encourage a tactical approach, though.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

IME, if you have the grid on the table, you will use it. I have no trouble running AD&D or Moldvay (or a clone) online in a text-chatroom game with no map or grid. 4e is the only game I've found myself referring to a grid even in a chatroom game. However, if I put a battlemat on the table, I'll end up using the grid, whatever the game.

So, if you don't want to be grid-locked, IME you need to not use the grid, or minis*, at all.

*If you play AD&D with its 1-minute combat rounds, 120' moves, and abstract positioning within a 10' battlespace, you may be able to use minis without getting locked down. The shorter rounds & movement rates in Moldvay can tend to encourage a tactical approach, though.

Gods, I hated the 1 minute melee rounds - the first houserule that I can remember making was changing to a 10 second round, with 12 inch movement.

The Auld Grump

 

[IronWolf]

I think you can certainly go back "home" again if that is what you want. Our group plays 3.x/Pathfinder and we have many sessions where we don't use a grid. Sometimes we just break it out for more complex battles with either more enemy forces or some interesting terrain condition that might make things a little easier. But even that varies on which GM is running.

In our experience it just takes a little trust in the GM and all seems to go pretty well. It definitely seems to shorten time spent during battles by getting rid of the careful scrutiny of the minis and counting of squares.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I didn't start using a battlegrid and minis until 3E, despite being an old-school wargamer.

But now I wouldn't play without the grid -- I like the clarity of position, and the tactical options it opens up. What's wrong with running combat as a tactical minis game, which is how D&D started?

Embrace the grid, I say!