Diplomacy, the replacement for roleplaying.

[Rystil Arden]

Surely, with a Diplomacy score like that, she could.

Heehee, you're probably right

"Pleeeeeeease Mr. Brising dwarf guy? Pleeeeeeeease make me an artifact necklace for free?"

"Well...urm...OK Freya, but you have to sleep with me."

"Sure, whatever....mmmmm free artifact necklace!"

 

[TheAuldGrump]

And do not forget Situational Modifiers are your friend. I am fond of the -50 What Do You Think I Am, Stupid? modifier. (Balanced by the +50 Errr, I Was Going To Do That Anyway... modifier...)

The Auld Grump

 

[A Man In Black]

I think I just found another use for Leadership.

Besides breaking the Epic Spell casting rules in basically the same way?

 

[Quickleaf]

If you can round up peasents with the Diplomacy Skill. Im pretty sure that this is the basis of Congress....

The only way I could see 100 peasants making an effect on the king is each day for 100 days you come to the king's court with a peasant and represent their mournful case of how the king's new tax laws have ruined their family.

You choose to Delay Skill Check, which allows you to accrue modifiers over a long period of time. This is a new rule. So with each visit you gain a +2 modifier to your 100-day long Diplomacy check.

After 20 days are up, you are starting to gain a reputation in court as the annoying socialist. The king's viziers realize that you are starting to impact the king who questions his tax policies. His 6 viziers remind him that they put him on the throne, not the peasantry. They remind the king of all the new harem and hanging gardens he will build with the new income, of the great library he will design, of the statue he will make of himself beside his forefathers. Together they give the king +12 on his Diplomacy check. They could choose the Delay Skill Check option, but they also know you'll be back tomorrow to whittle away at the king's resolve. Thus, they set up the king with an unexpected visitor this week. With his mom on the way, the king hastens to resolve important affairs of state.

On the 25th day, you have just presented the 25th peasant's case (+25) when the king informs you that he has other business to attend to and that he has reached a decision about the tax law.

You roll your Diplomacy +25. The King would roll his, but the fact of the matter is that one of his viziers is better equipped to handle this, and speaks up on the king's behalf. Thus the roll for the royal court is the lead vizier's Diplomacy +12. The DM decides that since this goes down in the royal court, the vizier gets a +5 circumstance bonus.

End result? If you've convinced the king he has been touched by something the peasants said during the last 25 days (possibly compassion, possibly fear), and a debate now begins (ala Dynasties & Demagogues) or a he simply makes a more lenient tax ruling.

The lesson? Maximum of one person can aid another in a Diplomacy attempt, unless using the delay skill check option, in which case each day an additional supporter can be added to the cause. However, the people you are negotiating with may opt to hasten the decision, screwing your plan for a really high diplomacy modifier. Alternately they may opt to unnecessarily delay your plan. And voila! Bureaucracy.

The application? Congresses and councils. Religions. Trading empires. All with one convenient Diplomacy check (after 100 days of role-playing)

 

[ThirdWizard]

The only way I could see 100 peasants making an effect on the king is each day for 100 days you come to the king's court with a peasant and represent their mournful case of how the king's new tax laws have ruined their family.

You really think protestors would have so little affect on the king? Perhaps if he doesn't care about his people. Well, if he is evil he'll probably just have them killed, examples must be made. But, a goodly king would surely be influenced by it. Perhaps the paladin gathered them as he went to the king and they are anxiously awaiting his reply. I'd probably give a +4 bonus for that, myself. Unless the king's in a bad mood or sees this as dangerous, in which case probably a -4. Know thine audience and all that.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I agree that the protestors should certainly have some effect, but the point is that it wouldn't be +200

The key is figure out where to draw the line on incessant Aid Another checks.

 

[Mistwell]

I think a lot of the DMs who think a high diplomacy score is a "problem" that needs to be "solved" with various house rules and rules exagerations are not being open minded.

These characters focus EVERYTHING on Diplomacy. It's a decsion the player made on what kind of game they want to play. Unless the other players dislike it, you should be finding ways to work with this kind of play rather than get around it. There are plenty of challenges you can pose to a character with a high diplomacy without the need to nerf diplomacy to force the game back into your own personal terms (I.E. DM metagaming). If you can't think of good ways to pose a challenge to the group without coming up with "new rules for diplomacy" or adding "unlikely protections to NPCs" or pretending that "friends will still kill you if honor/their boss tells them to" is giving in to a lack of imagination. Good DMs will adapt to that player tactic in a way that does not make that player's decisions less useful due to DM metagaming.

 

[Stalker0]

Aid another is one of the phew places where dnd doesn't put some kind of diminishing return on the bonus.

 

[apesamongus]

These characters focus EVERYTHING on Diplomacy. It's a decsion the player made on what kind of game they want to play. Unless the other players dislike it, you should be finding ways to work with this kind of play rather than get around it.

Except that two things are true about high diplomacy that aren't really true about any other thing in the game I can think of.

#1 It can overcome challenges
#2 There is no strong effort to prevent min-maxing of the ability

Plenty of things for #1 (attack and damage bonuses, spell and spell saves), but have a lot of effort put into preventing people from concentrating solely on that and getting it much higher than it should be (it can still be done, but not easily). And there are some things that aren't limited very much, but then don't benefit the character overly even with really high levels (many high skills - tumble, hide, etc). Diplomacy does both. You can get it really high AND having it really high makes a big difference.

 

[Storyteller01]

There's always OGL's take on it:

If entreatring a god for a service (the ultimate Diplomacy roll, but they call it Prayer ), the numbers of folks mean nothing (your god may not be interested in the show. wisdom from the mouths of babes and all...). IF the roll succeeds, then you get a benefit (+1 to the effect or DC for every 500 people involved, max +10).