(Discussion) General Part IV

[The Goblin King]

Given the (effectively) variable time flow on EnWorld, we could also determine how much crafting time a character has available based on their level.

Something like ItemFeats*CasterLvl magic crafting days and
Craft(or Profession)Ranks*CharacterLvl crafting weeks.

I'm down with that. This is days or weeks per RL month, ya? We will probably have to allow people to break up creation time since the big items take months to create. Although that won't be an issue for quite some time.

 

[dpdx]

I'm down with Pyrex' crafting time idea, too. Part the second, making it Ranks x CL (=probably days, no?), sounds particularly fair.

 

[Thomas Hobbes]

Ditto with what the other guys said. Good idea, Pyrex. I also dig Creamsteak's explanation of why a crew of adventurers can run off, have a weeks worth of adventures, and return on the same day of the tavern thread (which has been proceeding sluggishly). Much better than actually trying to keep track of the days, heaven help us.

 

[Uriel]

There is entirely too much effort being spent on trying to fix something that isn't broken.

There is nothing wrong with the actual system/mechanic for crafting items. Want to make a item? Take the time to make it.

All of thie variable time/warp time discussion is needless.
What is the big problem with just keeping track of time?
Yes, some people will end up being out of the picture,either on adventures or crafting items, big deal.

If you can't keep track of time in an adventure, or if you can't stand the thought that you might miss out on the beginning of a new adventure because you are making your +2 Bracers of Defense, perhaps you should be playing some instant gratification game like Everquest instead of D&D/D20.

You will hear no more comment from me on this subject, as it has really become quite stale. I agree with whatever Creamsteak agrees, he has my vote by proxy.

Yes, I do believe that I am being that rude who jumps in and ruins a conversation for others, for that I am sorry.

-Ron

 

[Uriel]

Yes, I do believe that I am being that rude who jumps in and ruins a conversation for others, for that I am sorry.

-Ron

Wow, they bleep out .

 

[Thomas Hobbes]

Apparently Eric's grandma is highly sensitive.

As to the discussion at hand, I don't think anyone would object to keeping track of the days- dead simple, that- but of keeping everyone on the same schedule. As I said, while your adventure went on for however long it went on, not much happened in the tavern thread. Should the people in your adventure be forced to "sit out" for however long in real-time it takes the tavern to catch up to them? Keeping various threads in sync is, in my opinion, a whole lot of effort spent keeping people not playing.

 

[Creamsteak]

All of thie variable time/warp time discussion is needless.
What is the big problem with just keeping track of time?

I agree with what you said, but I just wanted to answer this:

The problem occurs, to me, when we have accidently skewed time through actions. If one adventure takes the characters 18 in character days, and the other one takes 2 in character days, but both take two months of real time, we have to fudge the actual time to keep things orderly. Looking at my adventure (which suffered from me being very slow at times), we're on day 4. Meanwhile time flows in the Inn at a very different pace, and many adventures move quickly.

We aren't going to create a way to arbitrate how we fudge it through mechanics (pointless and inane banter), but an explanation that doesn't remove the suspension of disbelief is warranted. In this case, I think that our "enworphants movements" and "random magical vibrations caused by travel through the universe" and even possibly "where there is battle, and two forces working against each other trying to quickly circumvent the other side, time is slowed" all makes sense.

Now, if your just arguing against the concept of "more days for higher level characters" I agree with you. But I still think that it helps the suspension of disbelief when we state why time is skewed. Same reason why we suspend our belief that some dragons can keep chlorine gas in a sort of bladder for defensive purposes when it really should kill ANY creature.

 

[Uriel]

Making myself a hypocrite by continuing in this line after saying I was done.

What I am against is
*poof*
I just made a 50 Charge Wand of Cure Light Wounds,spent the XP,the GP,ignored the very long time it would take (since you have to cast CLW 50 times), sold it...
*ca-ching*

and then...
*poof!*

I just made a 50 Charge Wand of Cure Light Wounds,spent the XP,the GP,ignored the very long time it would take (since you have to cast CLW 50 times), sold it...
*ca-ching*

and then...
*poof!*

I just made a 50 Charge Wand of Cure Light Wounds,spent the XP,the GP,ignored the very long time it would take (since you have to cast CLW 50 times), sold it...
*ca-ching*


Get my point?

Some of you may say that nobody would even try that for fear of DMs/Judges coming down on them, but that is just what they will be able to do, making 375GP profit every time (more with higher level spells) for essentially nothing.
There is unquestionably a market for such a wand, such that any DM should have ZERO % problem with them getting an automatic sale, CLW being what it is (It's not like you are trying to sell Tenser's Disk Wands...).

Any Player who, given a 'timeless' atmosphere to build his Wands in who Doesn't play and create in such a manner is a bit of a fool.

If you are so enamored with starting a business in an RPG, then go all out.

If I seem harsh, I am truly sorry, but the fun of an RPG for Me isn't in figuring out profit margins and production times. There are plenty of board games out there with such minute details to delight those who like them.
As a player, I do sometimes like engaging in a bit of trade, it is fun RPing,after all.

Likewise, it takes the fun away for Me if the players are given an instant cash machine with no backside to it.

As a DM, the last thing I want is to have to endlessly go over someones calculations for their Fall Schedule of Rings of Protection. That is not D&D to me.

That aside, I would like to very specifically say that only one Character ( Felix) has really mentioned the business/items thing as far as I know. I am in NO WAY targeting him or his player, who is doing a great job RPing as far as I have seen up to this point.I am just venting a bit, call it Barney Fife 'Bud-Nipping', call it residual frustration from a decade ago when one of my players would show up at 2am with chart after chart on his magic item business (ferretguy knows who I am talking about), call it my Hangover.


Edit:Spelling

 

[Pyrex]

What I am against is
*poof*
I just made a 50 Charge Wand of Cure Light Wounds,spent the XP,the GP,ignored the very long time it would take (since you have to cast CLW 50 times), sold it...
*ca-ching*

...

If I seem harsh, I am truly sorry, but the fun of an RPG for Me isn't in figuring out profit margins and production times.

You don't actually have to cast it 50 times. Creating a CasterLvl 1 wand of CLW takes one day and one casting of CLW (you only need to cast the relevant spell once per day. As the wand has a market value of 750gp it only takes one day to craft)

It's not all about profit margins. Some characters (mine included) want to make stuff (ex: Mwk Strength Bow, arrows) for their own use, we need to figure out what spending x weeks of crafting means. If we go with the 1/2 real-time as CS posted a few posts above that means Remi would have to sit out not adventuring until summer 2005 to make the bow, which pretty much makes craft skills a complete waste as I'd much rather spend the next year-and-a-half actually playing.

 

[The Goblin King]

Okay, I see what you are talking about. A fifth level cleric could pump out five CLW wands a month for a cost of 150 xp and 1,875 GP. How about this formula:

(caster level you are making the item at or minimum caster level required) = magic item crafting days per RL month. If the days this month are not enough you can carry your work over into the next month. Calculate days again for the next month and subtract any days you have already worked. If this is still not enough time continue to carry over to the next month. Any extra days are lost.

Our fifth level cleric can make one CLW wand per month (caster level 1 = one crafting day. The wands cost is less then 1,000 gp so it takes all day to make.)

Or, one Cure Serious Wounds wand every two months. (caster level 3 = 3 crafting days this month.) Cost to make is 3 x 3 x 350 = 3,375 GP. He will use up three days this month and have to carry over into the next month. Next month he will get another 3 crafting days. There is only have one crafting day undone so he will finish but the other two days are lost.

Lets say we have a Druid with Craft Wondrous Item. She can create one Grey Bag of Tricks per month. (caster level 3 = 3 days) Cost to make is 300 GP so it takes one crafting day. Those two extra days are lost.

Another example, how about a Wizard making a Staff of Evocation. (its minimum caster level is 13 so the wizzie gets 13 days per month) Its costs 32,500 GP to make. It will take 33 days to make. At 13 crafting days a month that means it will take 3 real life months to finish (extra days are lost).

What do you think?

Edit: it occurs to me that maby we should make an exception for Brew Potion. They always only take one day to make. OTOH, perhaps not. The result would be casters using potions rather then selling them as they only get to craft one potion a month.