(Discussion) General Part IV

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Sparky

Registered User
I saw some reference to it somewhere, but how many characters are we allowed to field here at LEW? I'm wanting to make a character for Uriel's campaign (if he'll have me), but I have half-a-dozen character concepts burning up my brainqueue (as do many of you, I'd imagine) and want to get some of them into action.
 

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Uriel

Living EN World Judge
Sparky said:
I saw some reference to it somewhere, but how many characters are we allowed to field here at LEW? I'm wanting to make a character for Uriel's campaign (if he'll have me), but I have half-a-dozen character concepts burning up my brainqueue (as do many of you, I'd imagine) and want to get some of them into action.

We decided that 2 was fine, 3 if you just have to make them. If you have multiple characters, however,DMs will be less likely to include you over, say, someone with only one character, as you are already getting to play.
That being said, sure you can jump in to my next game, although it is a bit unclear as to what those who wish to pursue the escaped villain want to do about finding him.

My next one might be completely unrelated to the former 4 games...

Edit:Spelling
 
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Creamsteak

Explorer
Participants in eK-1 The Tower of Koltifineous will recieve experience as such:

300 experience for encounters
500 experience for 5 months of adventuring

I'm thinking of making the 100 xp bonus per month of adventuring an arbitrary LEW amount to add to any character just because of instances like this one where players get caught up in a slow or stopped game and can't move. I figure this can't hurt anything.
 

Creamsteak

Explorer
You can't make a magic item while on most adventures... and I do want magic items to be created by players as often as possible. The xp costs of item crafting do subtract slightly from your previous adventuring time's "value" if you wanted to put it that way...

XP cost is 1/25th of the gold piece value of the created item.

I'm thinking that we should simply allow magic item creation to happen whenever a PC can afford to. I realize that people could be magic item factories then, but since I'd rather have MORE items being created by players for players, I don't have much of a problem with that. What's some players opinions though?
 

GnomeWorks

Adventurer
I suppose I don't have a big issue with "spontaneous" magic item creation. I think that one of the points of creating a magic item was that it took quite a bit of time... but I suppose there's not really anything wrong with removing it, since that limitation would be hard to adjudicate in LEW.
 

Uriel

Living EN World Judge
I have stated my position before, that I am against 'poof it's done' items.
As well, your statement about wanting magic items created by players as often as possible is a bit ambiguous.
I, as a player ,don not want to be beholden to another PC (Creator) to get my items. I (as a player, again) should be able to buy them from an NPC source just as easily. I don't think that any of the players who are itching t make magic items have mentioned charging less than full retail, so there is no incentive for anyone to buy from them just to make them money.

In the spirit of getting this setting moving again, i will say 'Sure, what the Heck' to the instant magic item/time issue.

As I said above, however, I am against PCs being the source of most magic items/NPCs not being able to provide them, no PC should have to rely on another PC for their stuff. It's fine if PCs want to make them, however.

On a flip side of this issue:
If the creating players all say 'OK, fine, we will only charge 80% of book value, so as to entice others to buy our stuff', it would smack an aweful lot like Board members voting themselves a raise, or any other situation where there is no outside regulation. I don't want to see the values of magic items grossly distorted so that PCs can make profit, as that disrupts the balance the the designers created when they assigned GP values to them (especially if we are removing time restrictions).
There should be some sort of governing Council/Guild already in place that takes a bad view of the new kids showing up and undercutting the market.
 

doghead

thotd
I think the 100XP per month of real time is good. While Jaan was standing around in the rain for an afternoon, others were reaching 3rd level. But, of course, I'm biased in this case. :)

If only PC's can make majick items, could be quite time consuming to find someone willing and able to make the particular item that you are looking for, IC. It could also be quite frustrating if you couldn't find someone.

And would it be technically possible for someone with 2 characters to have one of them concentrate almost totally on magick item creation? Would this be a good or bad thing?
 

Creamsteak

Explorer
What Living Greyhawk does
Well, going way way back to when I was playing Living Greyhawk in July, I took scribe scroll as my initial feat because I wanted to craft scrolls for other players. Later on I found out that players can buy any magic item they can afford in living Greyhawk, and that item creation feats were not allowed. I changed my feat, but I've never played in a campaign where items could be purchased from NPCs except by bartering perhaps. Living Greyhawk did use a "Days" system where a character spent "Days" to travel between their regions for events. I had assumed initially that you could also spend "Days" to craft items. I do not know if Living Greyhawk also negates the use of Craft and Profession skills.


The problem with unregulated and economically regulated trade
If we don't limit what items can be sold for liquid currency and what items can be bought, then people get what they want when they want it. That's fine to me. The only problems are with item creation and craft skills. These features allow you to generate additional income indefinitely unless these are controlled either through an economy or time management.

Even by the standards set in the DMG (though the 3.5 ones could be different) you had a GP value that determined the maximum value of purchasable items. Liquid assets were also listed (10% of the GP value of the city, IIRC), which determined how much equipment could be sold for liquid assets in a city. What the rules didn't include was a "how often is this value recycled". If a group were to buy half the liquid assets of a city (all that could really be purchased before it would prevent the regular economy from functioning), how long does it take before trade and commerce would reaccumulate enough new liquid assets to accomodate this exchange?

If you allow PCs to sell created and plundered magic items to NPCs with the above partial regulation, then having a gold supply for each major city (those with taverns), after a gold supply is run to it's bare minimum, people would either move on or try and sell everything they possibly can to that city as soon as they can. Too many PCs in a single region would quickly deplete that regions resources if allowed to do so without regulation.



Solutions
The quick fix, the Living Greyhawk fix, is to just cut out item creation. I don't think this is a solution that anyone really wants, except as an easy way out.

In general you could regulate time and not economy, or you could regulate time and economy simultaneously. The problem is, how do you relate adventuring time with non-adventuring time? How are the two measured in relations with each other, and how do they relate with real time. Smaller increments or larger increments of real time?

Smaller increments are probably a safer bet. They are easier to examine. A simple small increment regulation would be to give x game days for each real month that any character can use. Now I wonder if we should have seperate scales for each day while on an adventure vs. not adventuring. Obviously characters can only create items while on an adventure if the adventure permits this, so items can normally only be created during a characters downtime.

If we use the sample that for each month of real time, a character can spend 10 game days on item creation if they are not adventuring, then we can look at how this fits into the world. For every 3 days of real time, the character has 1 day of character item creation time to spend. When an adventure ends, they can spend 3 days of time in between an adventure to create one magic item of 1000 gp value or less, but the craft skills and profession skills aren't really useful. You could make 1 day of magic item creation and 1 week of crafting the same to try and make the two work more succesfully in unison.

If we just give every character (regardless of current activities) 14 days of item creation for every month and remove the rule that item creation must be continuous, then we can craft items over the course of multiple adventures if we want.

These are both ignoring any concept of economy. If we want to toss that in, it adds that one extra layer of safety to the game system, but adds that extra complexity.

Anyway, that's my general analysis. I can do this, but which way do people prefer we go with? I'm fond of the real time system more than the arbitrary x days per month system, but in order to make that work you have to alter the way craft/profession works, or alter the time mechanic for craft/profession use.
 

Pyrex

First Post
Given the (effectively) variable time flow on EnWorld, we could also determine how much crafting time a character has available based on their level.

Something like ItemFeats*CasterLvl magic crafting days and
Craft(or Profession)Ranks*CharacterLvl crafting weeks.
 

Creamsteak

Explorer
Intersting... time is affected by gravity in the real world. Instead, time could very much be altered by something far less tangible, like personal power. I like that idea. This would also help to explain why time is so drastically altered during specific adventures, a congregation of power (bad guys and good guys) working against each other in different ways slows time down as each side tries to hedge out the other and win.
 

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