Disdain for new fantasy

[Mallus]

Does anyone here think that The Hulk was not crap? I swear, that movie was 7 hours of my life I'll never get back..........

You mean Ang Lee's feature film, the one with Eric Bana? In all seriousness, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I also know quite a few people that think the entire Hulk corpus is crap, at least in the sense that they find no value in it whatsoever. In fact, I'm married to one of them...

I think that, in some cases, the interplay between art and the viewer/reader/whathaveyou can create the illusion of depth that isn't there in the original work.

Ummm, isn't that how the whole reading/viewing process works? I like to call that 'illusion of depth' meaning (which never inheres and is always assigned). I also like to think that a work of art really does exist mainly in the eye/mind of the beholder, created, just as you say, by the 'interplay between the art and the reader/viewer'. It's my 'art object as catalyst' theory...

It is sometimes the act of loving observation that has depth, not the thing observed.

.
Yup... that's still how art works.

 

[TwinBahamut]

On the subject of whether or not "objective" crap exists:

Does anyone here think that The Hulk was not crap? I swear, that movie was 7 hours of my life I'll never get back..........

Does anyone here think that Tarzan and the Lost City was not crap? My son, who was 7 or 8 at the time and heavily into Power Rangers, looked up at me and said, "Dad, this movie makes no sense."

I think that, in some cases, the interplay between art and the viewer/reader/whathaveyou can create the illusion of depth that isn't there in the original work. I love Doctor Who but sometimes what I love about a particular story is coming from me, from what I read into it, rather than being something inherent in the story itself. It is sometimes the act of loving observation that has depth, not the thing observed.

I've published stories, poetry, and essays. Crap exists. I've had a bunch of it rejected. I still have electronic copies; I can prove it exists. I've heard myself sing. Trust me, that's an experience you don't want to have.


RC

Certainly, bad stuff is out there... I don't think anyone would claim otherwise. However, I would argue that it is bad because it is not enjoyable, not for because of some lack of ideas or the like.

However, regarding your Dr. Who comment, I don't think a distinction needs to be made between "what you read into something" and "what exists inherently in something" needs to be made. In fact, only three things really exist regarding a work. The author's thoughts when the work was created (intangible element of the past, impossible to exactly recreate), the work itself (the phyical unchanging thing), and the audience's interpretation (the individual response). Often, an audience reads something from a text that the author did not intend (whether from a failure on the author's part or the audience's own creativity), and that is perfectly fine. It is just how things work.

There is no such thing as the one true set of ideas contained in a work. While I would not go so far as too 100% agree with the idea, the main trend of thought in literary criticism these days is based on the "Death of the Author", in which the identity and ideas of the author are irrelevant, and the main goal is examining a work based on the reader's identity and ideas.

 

[Clavis]

What about Buffy The Vampire Slayer (and Angel)? Buffy is taken quite seriously in certain academic circles. How would we feel about Joss Whedon's work as an influence on the future of D&D?

Of course, defining Buffy's genre is somewhat problematic. Is it horror, or modern dark fantasy?
Or, more to the point for the original question of this thread, is Buffy essentially a supernatural Wuxia show?

Often it seems what we are really discussing when we talk about "anime" is actually animated wuxia. Is the problem the inclusion of eastern cultural norms into D&D, the feeling that wuxia-style combat is too over-the-top for the game, or that we don't want the worst examples of anime being mistakenly looked to for inspiration?

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I can call anything I like crap, matey. You like Days Of Our Lives? Doesn't stop it being trash You like Big Macs? Doesn't stop them being low-grade food that's basically bad for you. I don't criticise the enjoyment when I call it crap, I criticise the constant attempts to claim that it's not... crap... At least Days Of Our Lives fans aren't say "Wow it's deep man", yet Naruto fans sure are...

And therein lies the problem.

You're stating your opinion as fact.

Its not.

There are objective qualities to most everything, but the second you start saying "Its crap", that's subjective and not a universal fact.

 

[Raven Crowking]

There are objective qualities to most everything, but the second you start saying "Its crap", that's subjective and not a universal fact.

You have obviously never heard me sing.

Be very, very thankful.

RC

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

You have obviously never heard me sing.

Be very, very thankful.

RC

And you haven't heard me. I bet I'm worse!

But that doesn't change the fact that somewhere out there is a nut who might think my singing is good.

 

[Raven Crowking]

And you haven't heard me. I bet I'm worse!

But that doesn't change the fact that somewhere out there is a nut who might think my singing is good.

Your second statement proves that you would lose your bet..........

 

[Desdichado]

I'm not sure I'd characterize 9 million people as hypnotized and stupid for enjoying a game and playstyle you do not, but that's just me.

Well, that's because you're obviously not Ruin Explorer.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Your second statement proves that you would lose your bet..........

...you win this round...

 

[Raven Crowking]

...you win this round...

I win "worst singer"! Whee!