Diseases trivial?

[keterys]

Does that lock the thief is trying to pick have a poison needle trap? That would make your comparison valid. Otherwise it isn't.

Well, a poison needle trap would likely make it a skill challenge or encounter, so assume instead that the locks instead are ruined if he fails his Thievery check. After all, I've already stated that if the disease is convoluted or interesting enough to be a skill challenge or encounter then you can't take 10 by RAW.

So what difference does that make, by the RAW, if the lock disintegrated if he failed the Theivery check? A chance for failure or a repercussion for failure are 3e rules for preventing taking 20 and have nothing to do with taking 10.

 

[Oompa]

Dear cust serv,

A group of 5 with a cleric comes across dirty water, the fighter drinks it and gets contracted by Blinding Sickness.

The disease is lvl 9, the party is 9th level.. A cleric with 20 wisdom, trained in healing would have a base of +14, rolling a 1 would mean a 15, which means the person who is sick would never, ever get worse than he is.
If the cleric takes a 10 on the end of the extended rest he would automatically heal the fighter..

Do i miss something? Is a level 9 disease for a level 9 party or should the party be lower level?

Let's await answer..

Response:

Thank you for writing.

Your heal check will replace their endurance check. The DC is not 15 for Blinding Sickness. The DC's for Blinding Sickness can be found on page 49 of the DMG.

Good Gaming!

Arrrgggghhhh

My response:

Per DMG page 41: Blinding Sickness

Improve DC 20
Maintain DC 15
Worsen DC 14 or lower

So as said, a level 9 cleric, with 20 wisdom, automatically maintains the dc, and if he takes a 10 on a skill check he automatically cures his target.

The main question is, is a level 9 disease used for a level 9 party or are there other hidden mechanics?

I await an answer

 

[Sunglare]

If a player ops to have the cleric heal him instead of using his endurance check then the cleric would miss out on his extended rest won't he?
This could matter in cases of time constraint.

Treat Disease:​

​

​

​

​

Part of the diseased character’s
extended rest. You must attend the character periodically
throughout the extended rest, and you make​

your Heal check when the rest ends.

 

[keterys]

It's been my general experience that people keep watches _anyways_ or have adventure days of no greater than, say, 12 hours, so it's rarely an issue.

Others may have other experiences.

 

[Oompa]

Response:

Thank you for writing.

Your heal check will replace their endurance check. The DC is not 15 for Blinding Sickness. The DC's for Blinding Sickness can be found on page 49 of the DMG.

Good Gaming!

My response:

Per DMG page 41: Blinding Sickness

Improve DC 20
Maintain DC 15
Worsen DC 14 or lower

So as said, a level 9 cleric, with 20 wisdom, automatically maintains the dc, and if he takes a 10 on a skill check he automatically cures his target.

The main question is, is a level 9 disease used for a level 9 party or are there other hidden mechanics?

I await an answer

Answer:

Thank you for writing back. You are correct in your calculations. Given the circumstances in your example, and considering the updated Disease information, you can automatically maintain this disease. If you want to make it more difficult for your group feel free to approach your Dungeon Master or adjudicate it yourself if you are the DM.

Conclusion: A dm should adjust the dc's to scale better with the party to make things exciting if needed..

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Answer:

Thank you for writing back. You are correct in your calculations. Given the circumstances in your example, and considering the updated Disease information, you can automatically maintain this disease. If you want to make it more difficult for your group feel free to approach your Dungeon Master or adjudicate it yourself if you are the DM.

Conclusion: A dm should adjust the dc's to scale better with the party to make things exciting if needed..

Well, what do you expect CS to say? They are just supposed to be there to help you interpret what the rules are, not tell you how to run your campaign. So that's the exact answer I would expect they have to give. In other words you are correct, level equal diseases are pretty much trivial to cure.

I think the moral of the story is that if you want a SCARY disease, then you really have to inflict a disease that is at least something like level + 4. In that case taking 10 may not be enough to maintain it, depending on the skill of the healer. Someone who is a super maxed out healer will STILL maintain on take 10, but it does require a significant investment of feats to be that good. Plus what good does it do to just maintain the disease? You really want to cure it, and for that the healer is going to have to risk failure.

It doesn't make diseases ultra powerful, but like traps and poisons and things like petrification 4e really tries to take a tack of making them all reasonably unlikely to be catastrophic, yet they do have some negative effect and there is SOME (low) chance that they can put you out of action or kill you. Seems to me that even a 5% chance that a player is going to lose a favorite character that they spent a lot of time on IS scary. Worth the risk, but still a bit scary.

 

[Ghost0]

If a player ops to have the cleric heal him instead of using his endurance check then the cleric would miss out on his extended rest won't he?
This could matter in cases of time constraint.

Treat Disease:​

Part of the diseased character’s
extended rest. You must attend the character periodically
throughout the extended rest, and you make​

your Heal check when the rest ends.

I have had this interpretation in mind as well. If a character wants to use the Heal skill to help in the chances of improving a fellow PC's check for improving a disease, don't they have to watch over them for the (usually) 6 hours that they are resting? Therefore, they are not resting. Therefore, given that they rest normally (aren't those that can trance, for instance), a party that is trying to improve someone from a disease will have to rest for at least 12 hours?

What are some opinions about whether attending to someone to improve a disease is something you can do WHILE resting yourself?

 

[Grabuto138]

Huh?! I don't get any of your examples. What's not mundane about identifying plants or calculus?!

I suspect your intelligence score is much higher than mine. If you gave me a calculus problem and an evening to work it I may or may not get it right. I couldn't take 10, that it for sure. Likewise, if I was a cleric trained in Healing and you had a set of symptoms I may or may not be able to figure out what the specific disease is. The point is that it doesn't matter how complicated the treatment is, the check is to know what the correct treatment is.

 

[keterys]

You might be able to take 10 the calculus problem just fine... that might just fail

 

[Jhaelen]

I suspect your intelligence score is much higher than mine. If you gave me a calculus problem and an evening to work it I may or may not get it right. I couldn't take 10, that it for sure. Likewise, if I was a cleric trained in Healing and you had a set of symptoms I may or may not be able to figure out what the specific disease is. The point is that it doesn't matter how complicated the treatment is, the check is to know what the correct treatment is.

Your or my intelligence score is completely irrelevant in determining if it is possible to take 10 when trying to solve a calculus problem, if
- you're not in a rush,
- you're not being threatened, and
- you're not distracted

Since it's basically a knowledge check you have to decide if calculus is common knowledge or expert knowledge (this will depend on your campaign setting) but no matter how you decide, it will be possible to take 10.

Now, if someone held you at swordpoint and asked you to solve the problem in 60 seconds while balancing on a rope, you wouldn't be able to take 10.

You might be able to take 10 the calculus problem just fine... that might just fail

Exactly!