Disintegrate vs Summon 6

[Rashak Mani]

Disintegrate is always tops in any spell chart for 6th lvl.... but you have the chance of missing that ranged touch... its a Fort save as well.

I have +2 Dex and shouldnt be to reluctant to choose disintegrate... but we are facing a Drow campaign... people notorious for their dex. Anyway sending a 12 HD Celestial Dire Bear upon someone is almost akin to "disintegrating" them... especially grapple prone mages.

Overall would you choose Summon 6 (my first summoning spell) or Disintegrate ? Please give me stories of good and bad usage of disintegrate and summon 6.

 

[Epametheus]

If you're worried about missing on Disintegrate, just use True Strike.

You can also use cat's grace, polymorph self, or both to boost up your dexterity.

A bigger issue than hitting on Disintegrate is that you're fighting against people with SR.

Summon Monster VI is good because SR isn't any protection against it. And Celestial Dire Bears are a very good deal -- 10/+3 DR, +18 to hit, SR 24, and a grapple check of +23. I'd say they're much handier against clerics than against wizards -- after all, a wizard can fly or teleport away from it. A cleric that doesn't successfully Blasphemy it is going to straight-out die. You can also bring in 1d3 SMV monsters -- if you need to dish out a lot of damage quickly, 1d3 celestial grizzlies or Earth Elementals can do the job nicely.

Disintegrate is just another save or die. SMVI can be a much surer thing in the right circumstances. Of course, there are counters to it, but having your bear dispelled beats having Disintegrate thrown right back at you through Spell Turning.

 

[gfunk]

It really depends on your character, your theme, and your strengths and weaknesses.

In my case, I have a Sorcerer (17th level now) who took both SMVI and SMVIII. Since she has the Alienist prestige class, all of her summoned creatures are quite potent. IMO, SMVI is when the Summon Monster chain starts to become useful. The Dire Bear, of course, is a can't lose selection. It is most assuredly a melee beast able to smack down with the best of 'em. Its 10/+3 damage reduction and SR 24 certainly help. Also, I like to summon an Eryines to teleport the party around. Usually, we all get into a Bag of Holding or Portable Hole and she takes us wherever we need to go.

Disintegrate is a good spell, but I personally found its usage to be too limited for my Sorcerer's selection. It does have a couple of uses, however, that make it unique:

1) The only spell in the game that can take out Force spells, like Wall of Force and Forcecage.

2) Disintegrate is the bane of most intelligent undead (Vampires/Liches). Since they have no Constitution scores, their Fortitude saves are usually horrible.

However, I just used Limited Wish to replicate Disintegrate on the few occasions that I needed it.

BTW, here's a shameless plug for my Story Hour. If you want to see Summon Monster spells in action, see how my Greater Ooze Paraelemental puts the smackdown on a bunch of Stone Giants.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33249

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Possibly the most overlooked use of summon monster VI: three cure light wounds and a cure moderate. By summoning a celectial unicorn. Sure, it's not great for a 6th-level spell, but it's pretty darn good healing for an arcane spell.

Fundamentally, the attraction of the summon spells to a sorcerer is their flexibility, which is something that sorcerers are not otherwise long on.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Re: Re: Disintegrate vs Summon 6

2) Disintegrate is the bane of most intelligent undead (Vampires/Liches). Since they have no Constitution scores, their Fortitude saves are usually horrible.

That and the fact that Fortitude is a slow save category for undead. Doesn't necessarily help against templated undead like the ones you mention (since they keep the saves of the base creature), but it looks awfully good against devourers and such.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Possibly the most overlooked use of summon monster VI: three cure light wounds and a cure moderate. By summoning a celectial unicorn. Sure, it's not great for a 6th-level spell, but it's pretty darn good healing for an arcane spell.

Hmmm, I missed that one . I'll need to re-read the templated-creatures. The mage in the game I run might need that option.

Fundamentally, the attraction of the summon spells to a sorcerer is their flexibility, which is something that sorcerers are not otherwise long on.

No joke. I played a 9th level summoner and ran into frost giants. Naturally, I didn't have fireball and the other players freaked. Then I called in a handful of Magmin followed up with a few Thoqua to attack their feet. Both the rogue and the fighter loved the "instant flankers" and the cleric wasn't exactly displeased with there being other targets to take damage that wouldn't need healing later.

The fact that summoning does not dispel invisibility is an added bonus, since the low HP character can dive into a corner and begin bamfing in the cavalry.

'Course my summoner was his own menagerie since he head the 'extra familiar' feat out of Dragon and carried around two brown bag of tricks. I tended to have lots of little friends around at all times.

 

[the Jester]

If you think you'll get another level out of the drow thing, get Summon Monster VI now- drow SR will make disintigrate even less reliable- and pick up disintigrate for one of your spells next level.

 

[Rashak Mani]

I had thought of the Unicorn as a healing machine option... or the Hound Archon as a teleporting hassle... there are many such options to play around with.

Elementals type creatures with wierd powers.

 

[Al]

Disintegrate is emphatically *not* just a 'save-or-die'. To think of it as 'just another save-or-die' misses its most important secondary function: it disintegrates things.

Now, not only does that mean that you can get through the Walls of Force that those pesky drow keep erecting (and which a Celestial Dire Bear will do diddly-squat against...and you don't *really* have Passwall, do you?), it can be used as a great utility spell. Walls, whatever their composition; Doors, Arcane Locked and whatever need no longer be an obstacle etc. etc.

 

[James McMurray]

A cleric that doesn't successfully Blasphemy it is going to straight-out die.

Unless he happens to have Protection from Good / Evil / Law / Chaos prepared (or the Circles of Protection). Those will shut down a summoned Dire Bear in a heartbeat.