D&D 5E Ditching concentration - did you do it?

I hope you understand that many readers will not be impressed by a player who effectively is saying "my greatest playing tactic is to switch out the DMs that don't allow my awesomesauce player moves".

I would suggest you adopt a pinch of humiliation here. Could it be that the reason you feel so cocksure is because you have had lenient DMs while Aaron and Bacon have not?

Anyway, you might consider taking another tack here. As an observer not invested in this particular argument, you come across as entitled and petulant, whether or not you mean to.

Best regards,
Zapp

That is you making emotional assumptions when someone states their factual experience. Casters had immense power in 1E and 2E. When I say I would switch out DMs, I mean a DM that purposely tried to counter everything I do for the sole purpose of making tactical play pointless as a DM must do to make things like invisibility and fly not worth casting. Anyone that did not achieve power in 1E and 2E as a high level caster wasn't playing the class very well. I've met quite a few folks that could not play casters well. Spell rules and caster combinations were extremely difficult for them and took too much time combing the books.

I've already had a discussion on play many times in numerous threads. I've been playing long enough to have been at many different tables with many different DMs, especially when I was young and hopping around. It's simple fact that I play in a fashion that most DMs can't counter within the game rules. That is why my DMs usually have had to step outside the rules with custom material to achieve a suitable challenge or the encounter becomes fairly trivial. For whatever reason, I've experienced this as a DM simple things like advanced scouting, patient and tactical spell usage, and utilizing terrain in a highly advantageous fashion elude many player groups. If you engage in this type of play, you can defeat the vast majority of encounters in D&D requiring very careful encounter building by a DM.

I see no reason to pretend I've had problems when I haven't. I've had DMs challenge me by building custom encounters. I expect that on occasion. What I don't expect is ridiculousness like invisibility being suicide in someone's experience when it has been one of the most powerful defensive spells in any edition of D&D. That is a foolish assumption that I would never share.

You've seen my posts long enough to know I tend to tell it how I see it. If someone makes a statement that is counter to what I've experienced the game, I state the only reason that statement could be true: poor play. There are a few players in my group that are very good at playing casters. They make the life of the DM nightmarishly difficult to the point it requires outside the box tactical thinking to counter them. It is the nature of high level casters to do so if the player is not good at playing casters or a new player that doesn't understand how the spells work.

At some point how about looking at the posts that gets this ball rolling. Aaron of Barbaria comes into the discussion with BS about his pet peeve. He doesn't address the discussion in a neutral manner. Instead, he comes in slinging mud about "recollection" and pet peeves and other such rubbish. When a guy starts off a discussion with me in a rude manner, I respond in kind.
 
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What? Hold Person is INCREDIBLY powerful, it's so powerful I can't imagine anyone NOT taking it. Paralyzed is the 2nd best condition to inflict on foes, behind Unconcious, advantage to all attacks as well as all attacks within 5 feet of the target being automatic critical hits is INSANE. On top of that, the only time the enemy gets to make a save is at the END of their turn, so even if he makes the save right after, not only did all of your allies beat the hell out of the guy, you also wasted his turn. All of this on a 2nd level spell... If you're using wisdom targeting crowd controls against targets that have high wisdom, the problem isn't the spell, its you. The only way I can imagine someone not liking the spell is because they're comparing it to other edition spells instead of comparing it to 5e spells, the hold spells are among the top of the top when it comes to single target crowd control.

I dot not wish to argue your point, but simply to mention that the expression "single target crowd control" is somewhat amusing :)
 

A concentration roll per attack is tedious. I think I'm going to write a house rule that is a concentration roll per enemy per turn. If they make the concentration check on the first hit, they make it for the turn. A round is six seconds, so all these hits are supposedly happening at some point in the six second round. One could imagine that stabbing someone two or three times successfully in a span of a second or two wouldn't be any more difficult to concentrate than being stabbed a single time.


The point that I bolded is also kind of amusing don't you think :)

Cheers to the joys of RPGs where people debate what realism is all about in a game where the roll of a d20 decides between life and death! :)
 


I'm not a mod, but I'd appreciate that those having personal grievances towards one another as a result of the herein argument, take their discussion to a private forum. Please.

Thank you.
 

Concentration spells duration at best are when a specific thing happens, in some cases it is up to a certain time period, the rest last for as long as you can hold the concentration. Spell slots limiting how many AoE's you keep up? Not very well, even with just two castings of some aoe spells it allows for deviating effects. Two cloud kills making a 80 ft long 20 ft deep wall of death that will move away from you for 6000 feet (over a mile) with no chance to stop it will destroy entire towns without anyone having any idea where it came from. Which can be done on a 10th level character. This could also be used to clear out an entire dungeon by letting it just flow through and murder things. Creative use of two concentration spells at the same time is crazy powerful, add in anymore and it starts breaking games.
I like cheese as much as the next guy, but removing a core balancing mechanic without considering the ramifications of doing so and for just a little convenience? The cheese that becomes available from such things is lethal.
 

...in some cases it is up to a certain time period...
Every concentration spell I can recall has an "up to a certain time period" duration, can you point out the ones which do not?

Spell slots limiting how many AoE's you keep up? Not very well, even with just two castings of some aoe spells it allows for deviating effects. Two cloud kills making a 80 ft long 20 ft deep wall of death that will move away from you for 6000 feet (over a mile) with no chance to stop it will destroy entire towns without anyone having any idea where it came from.
Your claim of spell slots not serving very well to limit how many AoE's is not supported by your statements that mean to be an example: if you can accurately aim a cloudkill from over a mile away from your target, your target can see the spell coming with enough time to move out of the way of the obviously not good yellow-green fog traveling their way, or to get anyone around that can dispel magic to do so.

You might actually have a point, but you chose evidence that doesn't prove, or even suggest, said point.
I like cheese as much as the next guy, but removing a core balancing mechanic without considering the ramifications of doing so and for just a little convenience? The cheese that becomes available from such things is lethal.
I want to make sure this is clear: I am not arguing with your conclusions, just pointing out that your statements that should be supporting those conclusions aren't because the inaccuracies or overly contrived circumstances needed to be accurate make your statements appear as if you haven't actually thought them through.
 

Spell sheets over simplifying things, :(
The cheese I missed on the cloud kill was using fog cloud to cover it up with. Probably some control weather or something I can't think of off the top of my head to move the fog cloud in front of the cloudkill, or just keep recasting fog cloud...
Any case, I know the cheese is there, and I know it's bad. and yes, I am doing a bad job of trying to make my point. I think dominate person might make for a better example.
 

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