Divine Metamagic Question

[Crothian]

Why would your house rule not be "Divine Metamagic doesn't exist"?

Because despite what people say on these boards there are people like myself that have never had an issue with the feat.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

There is a feat, called Metamagic Song in Races of STone. Requires two otehr metamagic feats, use Barid Music uses to make up for level adjustments due to metamagic. But noone will like it becasue it has the 'cannot makethe spell level higher than the highest you can cast' line.

I like it a lot because Bardic music is much easeir to get than turn undead attempts (Unless your DM is dumb enough to allow Nighsticks) Nice, balanced feat

 

[The Souljourner]

Why would your house rule not be "Divine Metamagic doesn't exist"?

As long as you go by the errata (which requires that you already have the metamagic feat), it's actually a pretty poor feat. Woo, I get a free empower for spending three turn undead attempts. You're almost better off getting the sudden metamagic feats.

-Nate

 

[Votan]

As long as you go by the errata (which requires that you already have the metamagic feat), it's actually a pretty poor feat. Woo, I get a free empower for spending three turn undead attempts. You're almost better off getting the sudden metamagic feats.

-Nate

It is a strange feat chain in that, combined with the right metamagic, it can be too powerful as a massive focus. However, it is clearly too weak compared to sudden metamagic with weak metamagic feats and a lack of focus.

I only find it gets decent with Quicken and maybe too powerful with Persistent.

 

[Darklone]

It is a strange feat chain in that, combined with the right metamagic, it can be too powerful as a massive focus. However, it is clearly too weak compared to sudden metamagic with weak metamagic feats and a lack of focus.

I only find it gets decent with Quicken and maybe too powerful with Persistent.

I would rather remove Persistent.

 

[Nail]

As long as you go by the errata (which requires that you already have the metamagic feat), it's actually a pretty poor feat. Woo, I get a free empower for spending three turn undead attempts. You're almost better off getting the sudden metamagic feats.

-Nate

My cleric used it with Quicken. It was well worth it, starting at 9th level.....

 

[Mistwell]

As long as you go by the errata (which requires that you already have the metamagic feat), it's actually a pretty poor feat. Woo, I get a free empower for spending three turn undead attempts. You're almost better off getting the sudden metamagic feats.

-Nate

No offense intended, but the amazing number of massively overpowered builds that depend on this feat over at the WOTC optimization board begs to differ. In my opinion, it is one of the few actually broken feats in the game (and I am usually an advocate for the other side on most of these kinds of issues).

If they had a normal level cap, the same kind found in virtually all other similar abilities in the game, it would be okay. But because you can totally bust the level cap, and cast what would effectively be a 9th level spell when you are only able to cast 4th level spells (for example) makes it brutally overpowered. And when combined with Nightsticks, Extra Turning feats, Planning and Uneath domains, and feats like Persistant Spell, it's just silly overpowered. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen that build posted with those two domains, nightsticks, divine metamagic, extra turning feats, and persistant spell.

If you would like an example of some of those builds, just let me know.

 

[Marshall]

If you would like an example of some of those builds, just let me know.

And all that comes back to Persistant being the broken link in the chain. DMM is fine. Persistant needs to be scrapped for a Greater Extend feat.

 

[Hedgemage]

I've been playing a cleric in a campaign loaded with undead. Being able to boost 'cure' spells with Divine Metamagic (Empower) has kept several party members from death and delivered some positive energy smackdown to the undead. Also being able to empower Lesser Restoration on the fly has made ability drain less of a fear.

 

[Mort]

And all that comes back to Persistant being the broken link in the chain. DMM is fine. Persistant needs to be scrapped for a Greater Extend feat.

I'll have to disagree. Persistant spell requires a six leve jump. Even a 1st level spell can't be cast until 13th level, 2nd until 15 etc. (4+ requires epic levels) - this is not a problem.

Being able to cast the equivilant of an 11th level spell at 9th level - that's a very big problem.
If you want to reign in divine metamagic - simply state that the caster cannot exceed his maximum spell level (i.e. 9th level cleric can't DM a spell to be higher than a 5th level spell).