DM Advice: handling 'he can't talk to me like that' ~cuts NPC throat~ players.

[Storm Raven]

If he has idiots like that arbiter on the payroll, who don't even know how to handle PCs without getting killed, then no, he'll probably be hated by the population ("That despot! He sent us this disrespectful clout, who tried to order our good duke around, and when we defended ourselves, he had the duke hung! To Arms!")

Yeah, the populace will hate the enforcer of law and order and love the randomly murderous thuggish PCs. That makes sense.

 

[Fenes]

This is the problem with high level DnD unless your players are willing to get into character and not use the power they have to run roughshod over the world then there is little a DM can do other than throw higher level NPCs at them.

That of course leaves a bad tatse in everyone's mouth.

I have talked this over with my players and I told them that unless we made some house rules for certain situations I would not be interested in running the game to high level.

For one thing we are working on house rules on how to handle it if the pCs are high level and dealing with an army or a large group of city guards that have htem surronded.

My players agree thet they don't like the idea that they could not be touched by a group of city guards who had crossbow aimed at them. It takes away from the fantasy of the game.

But part of it part of it isrole playing. Good role players have a reason for what they do. A reason above I do it because I am 12 level and the guard is only 3 that is metagaming. How would a person know something like that.

Why would a group of good adventures want to destroy a good king's power base? Why would a paladin choose to kill the king's lawman?

I have played in an evil game and we found out that to really succeed you need to be smart and try and stay under the radar. If you blantly commit evil acts that can be traced to you, you draw uneanted attention to youself and your plans.

In my game, high level PCs are treated with far more respect by lawmen. That avoids a lot of trouble, and seems to be more logical to me. I at least do not think too many NPCs would want to make high level PCs mad (or make any other hogh level characters mad).

It's a give and take - my PCs don't act like idiot ruffians, my NPCs don't act like that either. Or if they do, consequences happen.

 

[Storm Raven]

Uh... again, we're not talking gang members and cops, we are more talking stuff like "ok, our cop just made the ambassador of russia so mad he tried to kill him? What did possess that fool?"

Except that's not the situation we are talking about in this thread.

You have an arbiter (cop) and a group of mercenary PCs (gang). The gang killed the cop for no real apparent reason.

Now explain why (a) the government wouldn't try to punish the gang, and (b) the populace would spontaneously side with the gang members.

 

[Fenes]

Yeah, the populace will hate the enforcer of law and order and love the randomly murderous thuggish PCs. That makes sense.

If your enforcer is basically the sheriff of nottingham, trampling around without respect, diplomacy, or common sense, then yes, that'll happen.

Or take Gessler, in my country's origin myth.

 

[Fenes]

Except that's not the situation we are talking about in this thread.

You have an arbiter (cop) and a group of mercenary PCs (gang). The gang killed the cop for no real apparent reason.

As I said, I see the PCs as way above the gang, and on a level of a duke at least, judging from personal power alone. So, if we assume your mercenary band, then we are talking about said cop trying to bully Wallenstein around, or the Armagnacs.

 

[Storm Raven]

If your enforcer is basically the sheriff of nottingham, trampling around without respect, diplomacy, or common sense, then yes, that'll happen.

Except that's not the situation described. Perhaps you should go back and refresh your recollection of what the OP wrote.

 

[Fenes]

Except that's not the situation described. Perhaps you should go back and refresh your recollection of what the OP wrote.

I consider the actions of th arviter as they were described (refusing an explanation) as stupid, arrogant and disrespectful.

 

[Mallus]

Does no one else thinks that a smart king would not have inept arbiters, or he'd have lots of troubles with his nobles, and anyone else such clouts made mad by acting without diplomacy, or respect for personal power?

A truly smart and powerful king would rule a boring, undramatic kingdom, and thus isn't really useful for a D&D campaign In literary criticism this is referred to as the "Never Set a Story Inside the Federation Principle".

Also, all human endeavor is marked by colossal ineptitude, stupidity, short-sightedness and violence. No human system is perfect. The fact that even a strong king could have weak, cock-up Arbiters is one of the most realistic things I've seen in this thread.

 

[Storm Raven]

As I said, I see the PCs as way above the gang, and on a level of a duke at least, judging from personal power alone. So, if we assume your mercenary band, then we are talking about said cop trying to bully Wallenstein around, or the Armagnacs.

Well, except they probably aren't the level of a duke. That's a pure assumption on your part. In the case at hand, they are 4 5th level PCs. That's about the level of power of a group of reasonably tough veteran soldiers. I think you need to recalibrate just how powerful you think the PCs are, and also take into account that those in power are probably in power for a reason.

Even a tiny village like, say Hommlet has five benevolent NPCs 4th level of higher (and that's just off the top of my head), and at least two evil NPCs of that power. An entire dukedom will have many more.

 

[Elf Witch]

One could also ask oursleves if those NPCs really would back up idiots who start trouble for personal reasons.

Mighty strange, that a king backs up every stupid brainless idiot that doesn't even know how to handle adventurers without getting killed. Even stranger that such a stupid inept arbiter even made it to that post.

I mean, if the king has those high levle NPCs on call, why on earth does he let an idiot without sense motive, intelligence, or diplomacy run around as an arbiter, an idiot who just manages to get himself killed by a bunch of adventurers? Better to send in the high-levle bard who can talk to the bunch without making them mad.

Just because the arbitor didn't play nice nice with the paladin does not give the paladin the right to kill the guy. As I and others have said before rudeness is not a reason for a paladin to kill someone.

The arbitor wanted his son the paladin didn't want to give the child to him to honor the mother's wishes.

A fight happened and they killed the arbitor. Now if it was a fair fight provoked by the arbitor then why did the paladin instead of taking the baby and the body of the arbitor back to the king and explain what happened try to hide what he did.

Burning the body and trying to hide the act does not sound like the acts of a paladin who thinks his actions were justified.

In real life if a cop is rude to me I can't just kill him even if I am say head of one of the most powerful crime families or head of a powerful church. If I do there will be consquences. It is just stupid.

I believe that when players play their pCs in a stupid way there are consquences. I will not shield them from their actions. Not every NPC they meet is going to be nice and polite to them how boring and unrealistic. I don't do it for no reason or just to mess with the players there is always a reason why an NPC would behave this way.