D&D General DM Authority

[prabe]

Sure, but they can't just assign that to every ttrpg as is being done here. Those kinds of ttrpg's are inherently different.

"Those kind of TRPGs"? It's my primary goal of play for 5E, and I don't expect that you think 5E is in that category. I think it's at least as much about some players and/or some tables--though I'd agree there are some games written more specifically for those players/tables.

 

[FrogReaver]

"Those kind of TRPGs"? It's my primary goal of play for 5E, and I don't expect that you think 5E is in that category. I think it's at least as much about some players and/or some tables--though I'd agree there are some games written more specifically for those players/tables.

That's fair. I'm good with including those playstyles as well those types of ttrpg's. Nothing against that, just wasn't really thinking about it in those terms when I posted.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Could be my fault, I am a bit triggered these days when someone else comes along saying something along the lines of; "If ttrpgs were designed and played the way I think is best they would be better." Especially when I have over the years seen so many people put down over the preferences in question despite them not actually causing any problems whatsoever for people who want to play differently.

To a lot of players that I have experience with, roleplaying a character in a world with as much verisimilitude as can be afforded is their main reason for playing ttrpgs, and particularly games with an approach along the lines of D&D. It makes sense because it's pretty much the only place one can get that experience, as opposed to collaborative story telling, tactical combat, improv, etc. where there are tons of ways to scratch that itch.

That experience (inhabiting that character in a world that they can imagine is "real") is often anathema to other "stances" or ways of playing/roleplaying. That doesn't make it wrong or bad, or the other ways of playing wrong or bad, it's just a different experience and preference.

I have to say that, while I understand what you're saying, no incarnation of D&D would be near the front end of games I was looking for if I was looking for world verisimilitude; there's too many things baked into the system for it to seem a good choice there.

 

[Maxperson]

I guess to summarize my stance: Until I hear a football game announcer say "the players are hoping to tell a good story here today", I'm going to view the use of story to describe the events of games as a very unusual use of the word.

Just a bit of a False Equivalence there. A football game is not an RPG, and neither are first person shooters. RPG gameplay can create a story, even if a football game doesn't.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure, but they can't just assign that to every ttrpg as is being done here. Those kinds of ttrpg's are inherently different.

This is basically a form of One True Wayism. D&D is very flexible. It can be played with power gaming as the primary focus. It can be played with RP as the primary focus. It can be played with combat or no combat as the primary focus. And it can be played with story creation as the primary focus.

You also don't need story creation to be the primary focus in order for the collaborative gameplay to result in a story. I showed that above. The actions and resolutions result in a story that I can recount(not create) for my wife later(not that she's interested).

 

[FrogReaver]

Just a bit of a False Equivalence there. A football game is not an RPG, and neither are first person shooters. RPG gameplay can create a story, even if a football game doesn't.

And RPGs can create the same kind of story a football game does. In which case its perfectly equivalent.

 

[Helldritch]

Strange, I always felt that RPG were creating stories. Now some people here are claiming the contrary...

Role playing games pretty much create stories. These stories are created collectively at the table, but even if there are more than one author, they are stories nonetheless.

 

[FrogReaver]

This is basically a form of One True Wayism. D&D is very flexible. It can be played with power gaming as the primary focus. It can be played with RP as the primary focus. It can be played with combat or no combat as the primary focus. And it can be played with story creation as the primary focus.

You also don't need story creation to be the primary focus in order for the collaborative gameplay to result in a story. I showed that above. The actions and resolutions result in a story that I can recount(not create) for my wife later(not that she's interested).

No one is claiming games don’t result in stories. It’s just being pointed out that everything else does as well by that definition of story. And that means it’s rather pointless to talk about games producing stories.

I personally would use a different definition of story because of that. And in this definition rpgs (or at least certain ones with certain playstyles) wouldn’t be producing stories.

 

[FrogReaver]

Strange, I always felt that RPG were creating stories. Now some people here are claiming the contrary...

Role playing games pretty much create stories. These stories are created collectively at the table, but even if there are more than one author, they are stories nonetheless.

By that definition Football games create stories as well. They also include more than 1 author and are done collectively on the field. Even though they aren’t sitting at a table or roleplaying, they are stories nonetheless.

 

[happyhermit]

I have to say that, while I understand what you're saying, no incarnation of D&D would be near the front end of games I was looking for if I was looking for world verisimilitude; there's too many things baked into the system for it to seem a good choice there.

Different people have different things that break their "immersion" and no game is perfect for any playstyle. It's close to the top of my list for this style IME of trying many systems, especially when taking into account other factors. People's reaction to preferences of others is often "if you like x, then you would have the most fun in a game with Maximum X." but that obviously isn't true. Everything is just a spectrum and once a bar is reached other priorities become more important.

D&D (without some options in the DMG or from elsewhere), doesn't expect players to make changes to the world, particularly once play has begone, like a lot of games. So, it avoid a massive obstacle for the style of play I was referencing.

I am kinda curious what you think is baked into the system that would cause problems for these players though?