[DM needs help] How the party figures out what spell is in a wand? (and other items)

[Staffan]

scrolls - read magic tells you exactly what the scroll is, but otherwise you DON'T know. (even if the scroll is written in a language you understand?)

Potions- identify is the only way. The DM may allow you to "sample" it and see if it tastes like other potions you've had before and go from there, but as I understand that, that is only an optional rule..?

In 3.5e, both scrolls and potions can be identified with the Spellcraft skill, though it takes quite a while for scrolls. In 3.0, IDing potions was Alchemy instead, and required 1 gp worth of components (free but no retry in 3.5).

 

[XCorvis]

As far as the pearl is concerned, I'd make it radiate transmutation. The prereq should really include Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer.

 

[baradtgnome]

From the SRD, under Spell Trigger activation:
"Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell." -Hyp.

ok - so I know this. and I also know that I don't want to take up all our gaming time having characters flap their arms etc trying to figure out magic items. but some how going from a stick that glows magical evocation to instantly casting fireballs does not seem to have the right flavor. even worse do they some how just 'know' when they pick up the stick that it is a wand of fireballs?

...random thought...

Or perhaps this SRD quote implies that all spell trigger items for a given spell list trigger the same way, regardless of spell. And similar but slightly different than you described Hyp, it just goes off when you perform that trigger action. Then you observe the results and you are in the know. Now couldn't that create an interesting scenario - consider swapping identical looking wands on someone.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Or perhaps this SRD quote implies that all spell trigger items for a given spell list trigger the same way, regardless of spell.

Except Cure Light Wounds is on both the Bard and Cleric spell lists, but a Bard can't activate a Wand of Sanctuary, and a cleric can't activate a Wand of Charm Person.

And it says you need to know which spell you're activating.

-Hyp.

 

[baradtgnome]

And it says you need to know which spell you're activating.

-Hyp.

Ya, I know. I just like the twisted aspect of the other way. Going down the spell list mechanically just doesn't have the right flavor. Although fits in with the methodical wizard types. Sounds like the right answer.

 

[rtricher]

As far as wands are concerned listen to Hypersmurf he's dead on as you put it..

When trying to find out what Items do/are you could give them better hints.. as said earlier things may have inscriptions or runes.

The way I run my game is that PCs find treasure while on adventure if they manage to identify it great..ie. I put it on do I notice anything (yes you feel light footed ..ie. boots of striding...) but generally they just don't risk trying the gear and they won't anymore of this I'm sure, a bag of devouring is a mean thing man.. Otherwise the other things to note are whether or not the PC in question is forced to gain a negative level ie. from a Chaotic weapon in the hands of a lawful PC.

As per the Use Magical Device skill, AFAIK it's designed for non magic users and it imitates the inate ability that a spellcaster has for using such things..

Have a good day, make sure you're still having fun and try not to kill anyone.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As far as wands are concerned listen to Hypersmurf he's dead on as you put it..

Well, what I've suggested still relies on finessing the sentence "The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it" a little.

It depends on what constitutes "determination". Is a guess a determination? Is hearsay a determination? Is watching someone else activate the wand a determination?

Strictly, one might say that the only way you can actually determine what spell is stored is to cast Identify yourself... since if someone else does it, they might be lying to you when they tell you what they learn. But that would mean that druids, paladins, rangers, and clerics without the Magic domain (or Miracle) could never use wands.

So it seems unlikely that "determination" is defined quite so strictly.

But it's still subject to DM interpretation.

-Hyp.

 

[baradtgnome]

Well, what I've suggested still relies on finessing ...

Strictly, one might say that the only way you can actually determine what spell is stored is to cast Identify yourself...
-Hyp.

I agree with your position. The rigid extension of the above statement would also prevent procuring the services of a wizard to cast identify for you or from even using the instructions included in the wand case.

How does it play out in your game? Do you play it out or just give it to them? While the fighters are cleaning the gore from their weapons, I the wizard will take 20, figuring from the detect magic what relative level it is and narrowing the list of choices by the school try all the combinations. I just need to tell you where I am standing and what I am pointing at.

But it does assume that I, the wizard, 'know' the spell list even though I don't know all the spells; that it is a spell that would be on the common 'know' list; and that once cast I would recongnize the spell; and that I pick an appropriate target or could hold the spell to discharge it for a touch spell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

How does it play out in your game? Do you play it out or just give it to them?

I think I said earlier - I have a house rule that attempting to activate a wand uses a charge, even if you're attempting to activate the wrong spell.

So if there's a Wand of Floating Disk with thirty charges, it has an aura of Evocation (Faint). This could be any Evocation spell with a caster level of 5th or less; so it could be anything up to a 3rd level spell.

"Hmm," says the wizard. "I'll point it at the tree and try to activate Lightning Bolt."
"Nothing happens." 29 charges.

"Fireball?"
"Nothing happens." 28 charges.

"Okay, I'll pick a bird or rabbit or something and try to target it with Magic Missile."
"Nothing happens." 27 charges.

Now, about this time, they're probably thinking "Better to spend the hundred gp than waste too many more charges..." But if he keeps going, he might figure out what spell it is before draining the wand completely...

(It's in some ways reminiscent of trying to identify a wand in Nethack...)

[color=#dddddd]----[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]\[/B][/COLOR]--
|..[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]/[/B][/COLOR].[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]\[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=Sienna]+[/COLOR]###
|.[b][color=white]@[/color][/b]...[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]/[/B][/COLOR]
|..[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]\[/B][/COLOR].[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]/[/B][/COLOR]|
----[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]\[/B][/COLOR]--

The blast of fire bounces!  The blast of fire bounces!  

--MORE--

The blast of fire bounces!  The blast of fire hits you!

You die...

--MORE--[/color]

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

[color=#dddddd]----[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]\[/B][/COLOR]--
|..[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]/[/B][/COLOR].[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]\[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=Sienna]+[/COLOR]###
|.[b][color=white]@[/color][/b]...[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]/[/B][/COLOR]
|..[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]\[/B][/COLOR].[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]/[/B][/COLOR]|
----[COLOR=DarkOrange][B]\[/B][/COLOR]--

The blast of fire bounces!  The blast of fire bounces!  

--MORE--

The blast of fire bounces!  The blast of fire hits you!

You die...

--MORE--[/color]

-Hyp.

Silly Hypersmurf - everyone knows that you identify wands in nethack by engraving on the floor with them.

Now THAT'S the sort of thing I'd like in a game - identifying items in D&D is part of the fun of the game - but the DM has to play along, rewarding people's investigations with interesting side-effects and items that aren't strictly out of the DMG.

I really liked it when our DM wrote up a colour, texture and taste table for potions, and most of all it saved us a lot of time in game (ie - yellow, lemon-smelling potions with a consistency of honey were cure light wounds. This small fact stopped us from having to keep IDing cure light wound potions, time which basically cut into the game to no real benefit.)