DM panic button!! (gate and solars)

[Beelzebub]

The party i run just cleared out a nest of Nightwalkers allowing our cleric to hit 17th level. This gives him access to the rather nasty gate spell that allows him to call in a solar. Does anybody know of any non role playing ways for a villian to deal with one of these bad boys? Hallow allows you to d-anchor a rather large area thus preventing the gate in the first place, so lets assume that the solar is already summoned. It should be noted that solars have an SR of 32 and a will save of +20. Magic circle against evil allows SR for the hedging effects and banishment allows SR AND a will save. Thanks for the help.

 

[hammymchamham]

your name offends me. burn in hell lord of flies

 

[EOL]

I'd be inclined to role-play the Solar as having his own agenda, and as such unlikely to perform in exactly the fashion the player expects. Perhaps the continual preaching during combat gets on the other characters nerves. Or maybe the solar is far more interested in the relatively weak demons they main baddie has summoned and completely ignores the 25th level wizard....

 

[Beelzebub]

thanks...

Thats a good angle, but I'm looking for game mechanics help now. Lets assume that, as per the spell description, the player has a pretty high level of control over the solar thats already called in.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Well your already playing the game and at 17th level, so the best suggestion of removing or altering the spell is a little late, but I'll make it anyway.

Other than that, I'd read up on the banishment spells. I think one of them ignores SR, and may give a penalty on the save.

Not as rules wise I'd seriously limit the knowledge of the cleric. I wouldn't let him command the solar to use his death arrows, or certain spell like abilities unless there is a very good reason why the cleric knows the solar can do that.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

If your evil cleric is daring and can get close -
Use a Blasphemy spell, and beat the thing's SR
No will save for Solar


Wizards or clerics:
Use Banishment while presenting an evil holy symbol and unholy water. (for a certain +2 to SR and a +4 to save DC)

possible additional modifiers:
- Casting from "desecrated or unhallowed ground" (power components I would hope)

- use of the "curse" mode to hinder opposing alignment (good) as per "bestow curse" (save forefit as you chose to enter the area)





20th level caster needs 11+ on the d 20 to beat the SR.
This presumes only the holy symbol and the unholy water (and not even power components at that)


- this is a "recalculated base" Save DC of 20 to 21 + modifier; and your upper level wizard or cleric usually has a modifier of +6 to +10 (maybe more depending on how maxed out the score) before feats or other modifiers In this - your modifier is going to have to be greater than the solar's possible roll.

IMC If you want an effective "no real save no Sr" on the solar - this is what you could use;

Cleric or wizard; 20th caster level(effective or actual):

Things that modify SR roll

+ 2 Power unholy symbol/Divine Focus
+ 2 Unholy water (IMC - there is a power version)
+ 2 Unhallowed ground (as power component)
+ 2 Wearing A Talisman of ultimate evil
(minor artifact - but hey we ARE talking a solar)
+ 2 Spell Penetration
+ 4 "Greater Spell Penetration"
(If you have it the feat "overlaps" Spell penetration)
+ 1 The caster himself is a consecrated evil priest/blackguard
+2 If the caster were a Demon, undead lich (or the like)

As for making the save DC a 40+ (so solar can't save safely)

+4 Power Holy symbol
+4 Power Unholy water
+4 Unhallowed Ground
+4 Wearing a Talisman of Ultimate Evil
+4 If Caster is a Demon, Lich, or the like
+2 If caster is a consecrated evil priest/blackguard
+2 Spell focus
+4 Greater spell focus (overlaps - does not stack W spell focus)
+ 4 "Curse mode" of Unhallow hindering good aligned creatures as per Bestow Curse's secondary -4 to all saves effect (this is actually (actually a penatly to the solar)

Two powerful "hypothetical combinations"

Wizard/lich - 20th level; using power unholy symbol; power unholy water; with Greater Spell Penetration, intelligence modifier +8(or greater)

Needs a 2 on a d20 to beat the SR - save DC 40 for the solar

Lich/Cleric - 20th level using power unholy symbol; power unholy water; on unhallowed ground, spell penetration feat and wisdom modifier of at least +8

Needs a 1 on a d20 roll to beat the SR (sure thing) - save DC 40

 

[Xeriar]

The party i run just cleared out a nest of Nightwalkers allowing our cleric to hit 17th level. This gives him access to the rather nasty gate spell that allows him to call in a solar. Does anybody know of any non role playing ways for a villian to deal with one of these bad boys? Hallow allows you to d-anchor a rather large area thus preventing the gate in the first place, so lets assume that the solar is already summoned. It should be noted that solars have an SR of 32 and a will save of +20. Magic circle against evil allows SR for the hedging effects and banishment allows SR AND a will save. Thanks for the help.

Remember that Solars should not be terribly common, and thus will have agendas, plans, etc. While inherently good, calling on them to be rid of a 'middling threat' will probably annoy the solar, more than anything. That evil baddie damn well better have a CR bigger than the Solar's (and the Solar's CR damn well be bigger than 19).

Unless the threat is truly great (ie, the Solar would have showed of its own free will if it knew about it), the Solar will likely demand the left testicle of the summoning character as payment (a quest with an XP value equal to the amount that summoning the solar took away from the challenge).

 

[Tyrion]

The 7th-level spell Forcecage and the 8th-level spell Maze both allow no save or spell resistance. They'll incapacitate the Solar for a while.

However, teleportation will allow the Solar to escape from Forcecage and Maze can be overcome with Plane Shift...both spells the Solar can cast by using Wish.

 

[ruleslawyer]

The solar also can plane shift by preparing it as a cleric spell.

(Can anyone tell me why solars can't teleport without error any more?)

IMHO, gate is such a powerful spell that it should have a 5000 xp cost, just like wish. Any spell that can more than double your combat ability, allow you to travel to other planes, and create an impassable barrier (creating a gate with the open side toward your opponents) is pretty darn powerful.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Have the solar perform the combat task. Then do the following...

If the battle was a true good vs. evil scenario (i.e. they are fighting demons/devils/evil forces of the universe), then all is well and good.

If not... have the Solar berate the party, especially the cleric, and go off on a tirade about using power for justice and fighting true evil as opposed to some mundane thing the cleric could have taken care of. The solar can even threaten the cleric if he misuses his power of the gate spell....