D&D 5E DMG, PHB, and MM still in the Amazon top 100 sellers

[TerraDave]

5e sells can be compared to 4e, but not 3.5. Online shopping was less of a thing back then.

Yep, no online shopping in 2004. For whats it worth, the 3.0 PHB was definitely in the top 10 for Amazon, all the way back in 2000, and had good sales rankings later, but the data is hard to compare until 5E has been out a little longer

But lets take what you say at face value. You are saying that absolute sales where lower for the 3.5 one, at least at amazon, and I am showing that relative sales where lower. So you are saying that 5E sales where much higher then 3.5, thats why we can't compare them?

 

[Mark CMG]

Online sales were in their infancy for 3.0E but were beginning to get some legs by 3.5E. I wouldn't suggest that the same machine was in place in 2004 as when 4E was released nor that online sales were as common by 4E's release as they are today. It's pretty amazing how well 3.XE did. Obviously, with half their market off to PF, 4E and 5E cannot be doing as well unless the market overall has doubled in the last decade, which I see no reason to believe.

 

[Kramodlog]

Yep, no online shopping in 2004.

Hello strawman!

You are saying that absolute sales where lower for the 3.5 one.

Nope.

2 strikes! Will there be a third?

 

[TerraDave]

Online sales were in their infancy for 3.0E but were beginning to get some legs by 3.5E. I wouldn't suggest that the same machine was in place in 2004 as when 4E was released nor that online sales were as common by 4E's release as they are today. It's pretty amazing how well 3.XE did. Obviously, with half their market off to PF, 4E and 5E cannot be doing as well unless the market overall has doubled in the last decade, which I see no reason to believe.

OK. I am still not sure how a long-term trend towards online shopping starting in the mid 1990s impacts a relative sales ranking today. 3.0 D&D was sold on amazon, and sold well. We have the figures above for the latter editions.

Relative to other books on amazon 5E>3.5E, by a lot. "Half market" or not. This is a fact, at least up to this point.

Could be that the % of PHBs sold on Amazon grew faster then the % of all books sold on Amazon. There are fewer places to buy a PHB. But there are certainly fewer places to buy any book. And hobby game stores still exist. They focus on euro games and CCGs, but they sell RPGs as well. They sell 5E ones. Anecdotally a lot of them. So it could be that the increase in % of PHBs was actually lower then % increase of all books sold on Amazon, and that 5E is doing even better compared to 3.5 then the ranking indicates.

It would be easiest to assume that the impact of Amazon on the RPG book market and the overall book market were roughly the same, but I guess you don't have to.

 

[Coredump]

They don't. They sell one per group. Maybe another PHB, cause someone wanted his PHB. In a group of 5 person, there is probably just one person who bought all the core books for the group too. Meaning that the idustry is sustained by about 20% of its players. At least this is what I get from this guy. http://blackdiamondgames.blogspot.ca/2015/01/dungeons-dragons-dilemma-tradecraft.html

That has not been my experience with any edition of DnD. Just about everyone gets the PHB. Granted the MM and DMG is less so, but IME in a group of 5 players, there is usually more than 1 purchase of the MM and DMG, either because that person is a collector, or wants to keep up on the stuff, or wants to DM at some point.

 

[painted_klown]

That has not been my experience with any edition of DnD. Just about everyone gets the PHB. Granted the MM and DMG is less so, but IME in a group of 5 players, there is usually more than 1 purchase of the MM and DMG, either because that person is a collector, or wants to keep up on the stuff, or wants to DM at some point.

Our group has just been getting started (been playing for a bit over a month now) and so far, I am the only one with all 3 core books, but one of my players recently picked up the PHB. He is loving it, and I am hoping his enthusiasm will rub off on the others, so they too wll want to pick one up.

A couple of days ago, he was asking me about what I will allow or ban. I said, that the only thing I am banning from the PHB is multiclassing and evil PCs. Other than that, feel free to use everything. I feel that if they were willing to drop the coin to get a $50 book, then I will be cool about it and let them "get their moneys worth" so-to-speak.

Stuff in the DMG, on the other hand, I will be very selective about (such as crafting magical items), but unless they buy one, or read about it online (some of them have), then they will not miss what isn't in the PHB.

 

[Kramodlog]

That has not been my experience with any edition of DnD. Just about everyone gets the PHB. Granted the MM and DMG is less so, but IME in a group of 5 players, there is usually more than 1 purchase of the MM and DMG, either because that person is a collector, or wants to keep up on the stuff, or wants to DM at some point.

There are always exceptions.

 

[Mark CMG]

OK. I am still not sure how a long-term trend towards online shopping starting in the mid 1990s impacts a relative sales ranking today. 3.0 D&D was sold on amazon, and sold well. We have the figures above for the latter editions.

Relative to other books on amazon 5E>3.5E, by a lot. "Half market" or not. This is a fact, at least up to this point.

Could be that the % of PHBs sold on Amazon grew faster then the % of all books sold on Amazon. There are fewer places to buy a PHB. But there are certainly fewer places to buy any book. And hobby game stores still exist. They focus on euro games and CCGs, but they sell RPGs as well. They sell 5E ones. Anecdotally a lot of them. So it could be that the increase in % of PHBs was actually lower then % increase of all books sold on Amazon, and that 5E is doing even better compared to 3.5 then the ranking indicates.

It would be easiest to assume that the impact of Amazon on the RPG book market and the overall book market were roughly the same, but I guess you don't have to.

I'm not sure how much any of that matters except to say that online sales aren't the rubric by which to judge since a decade of online usage has obviously made it easier for editions to sell more online, generally speaking, as time has marched forward. What we do know is that D&D wasn't dividing the D&D market share during 3.XE, as 4E was with PF (both essentially being types of D&D) and now 5E is with PF (both being essentially types of D&D). If we assume that PF took half the D&D market (roughly) from D&D and left the other half (roughly) for 4E, then the overall market would have to have doubled for 4E to be doing at least as well as 3.XE. It really is that simple. Ergo, if the overall market has double between the advent of PF and 5E, then 5E has a chance of having the same percentage of market as D&D once had (and this assumes also that all 4E adherents have also moved straight on to 5E) but it also might just as well as mean that PF has also doubled in that same period.

 

[Mistwell]

Yep, no online shopping in 2004

I've heard this claim before, and proved it wrong before. Online shopping was HUGE in 2004. Amazon made $6.92 billion that year, and their focus was much more on physical books back then. I don't recall exactly, but I think what I found was their physical book sales have grown roughly 25% since 2004, and for some products it was actually higher back in 2004. That's not "no online shopping". If fact a huge number of people right here at EW bought their 3e PHB from Amazon, and we talked about it a lot back in 2004.

 

[TerraDave]

... What we do know is that D&D wasn't dividing the D&D market share during 3.XE, as 4E was with PF (both essentially being types of D&D) and now 5E is with PF (both being essentially types of D&D). If we assume that PF took half the D&D market (roughly) from D&D and left the other half (roughly) for 4E, then the overall market would have to have doubled for 4E to be doing at least as well as 3.XE. It really is that simple. Ergo, if the overall market has double between the advent of PF and 5E, then 5E has a chance of having the same percentage of market as D&D once had (and this assumes also that all 4E adherents have also moved straight on to 5E) but it also might just as well as mean that PF has also doubled in that same period.

Hmm....Actually, I used 3.5. That was a division, and the numbers indicate it was more divisive then what has been appreciated.

But these things are also elastic. There are millions of hobby gamers and millions of people who do CRPGs. Millions who used to buy RPG books but haven't recently. And you can in fact buy a 4E book, a PF book, a 5E book, and even another RPG book! You can do it all at the same time! A fraction of any of these groups decides to check out the 5E PHB, and thats hundreds of thousands of additional sales.