D&D General Dmg previews up

[Nikosandros]

I don't see anything in the summery about optional/variant rules. Are those not a thing in 5.5 anymore?

The way they were presented in 2014 was useless. If you include optional rules, they must be well thought out and discussed in detail about the consequences of their inclusion and the interactions with other rule elements.

In the 2014 DMG they are just semi-random ideas. I can came up with plenty of those on my own.

 

[OB1]

So what do you want the Dungeon Master's Guide to have in it that's worth the scratch?

For me personally, magic items, the lore glossary, and the art are the big reasons for purchase.

For the hobby in general, a solid tutorial on how to DM D&D. We know that lack of DMs is the biggest choke point for the hobby growing, and a book focused on teaching new DMs (as the 24 DMG appears to be) is important to achieve that.

 

[Maxperson]

Right, but how many DMs want variant rest rules, slow natural healing and full encumbrance? Ask 100 DMs what variant rules they'd like in the DMG, and you'll probably get 100 different answers. There are thousands of knobs that could be turned by any DM, depending on what they and their table find interesting.

To me, rather than presenting 10 or 50 pages of possible variants, I think giving them a couple of strong guidelines to help them navigate how to make changes to suit their own needs is more important. Give them explicit permission to make the game theirs, and point them to Indie publishers, liveplays and forums like Enworld for inspiration and advice. That, I think, will be far more valuable in the long run for any new DM.

For example, Dungeons of Drakkenheim has a great way to combat the 5 minute work day in their setting and Critical Role has a system to make resurrection both more difficult and meaningful. Sure you could publish those rules in the DMG, but again, how does that serve DMs for who those specific rules don't help them?

Yes and no.

You are correct that there are many more potential knobs that can be turned that will be provided in the DMG, but I disagree with you that there should be no knobs provided in the DMG itself.

There are some knobs(resting, skills, etc.) where it will be common for DMs/groups to want to turn them and alter the rules. However, not everyone is comfortable with building those knobs from scratch. A good analogy would be cars. When I go to buy a car, sometimes the base model features are not what I want, so I purchase one with added knobs. Even if the car dealership provided me with class to take the mechanical engineering of cars, I will not be comfortable buying the base model, taking it home, buying parts, and then doing the work myself add the feature I want to the vehicle. Some other people are and make their cars custom.

The DMG should provide the tools necessary for creating knobs of your own, but it should also provide those knobs that people commonly want in the game. Both are necessary for a good DMG.

 

[Micah Sweet]

For me personally, magic items, the lore glossary, and the art are the big reasons for purchase.

For the hobby in general, a solid tutorial on how to DM D&D. We know that lack of DMs is the biggest choke point for the hobby growing, and a book focused on teaching new DMs (as the 24 DMG appears to be) is important to achieve that.

That just makes it less likely experienced players are going to give WotC money for it. All those things are of less value to them in general. Is that what WotC wants?

You can look at pretty fantasy art for free on the internet.

 

[tetrasodium]

My prediction is that the 2024 DMG will not have variant rules.

Historically, most DMGs never had variant rules.

The only reason they were in the 2014 DMG is because the explicit promise of 5E was that it would support the playstyle of your favorite edition. At that time, WOTC was justifiably desperate to move past "the edition wars" and get all previous D&D players onboard the latest version of the game.

In reality, 5E never delivered on that promise. Yes, it had variable levels of complexity -- the champion fighter is simpler than the battle master fighter. But the battle master never delivered the tactical complexity of 4E just like the champion never really felt like it came from 1E. Both of them fell within the spectrum of 5E.

The variant rules in the DMG were a rather sad vestige of "modularity", half-baked and half-hearted and half-functional.

Fortunately, by the time 5E was published, it delivered something better than modularity -- a polished D&D experience without the fatal flaws of previous editions, simple for noobs to learn, but with enough complexity to keep veteran players engaged.

In 2024 it's an easy choice to leave variant rules on the cutting room floor.

So if you want to find variant rules, don't look in the 2024 DMG. Look at Level Up. Look at Tales of the Valiant. Look at Shadowdark. Hell, look at 13th Age and Shadow of the Demon Lord (or Weird Wizard)! Those great games are full of inspiration for variant rules. You can loot ideas for your 5E game or even just, you know, play them. I do both.

Uhh.... This kinda reads like a "tell me you started with 5e without saying it". Not only is that not true, some editions had given it enough thought that there was literally a special section in the index just to make them easier to find.

Spoiler: l;ike so

I believe the 3.zero dmg had some too but not sure I've ever physically touched or seen one of those

Without even needing to go hunting for crumbs the ad&d2.0 dmg has at least one because I knew & remembered it as a fact due to how it provided the GM significant support when most needed.

Spoiler

 

[Stalker0]

What I am most interested in seeing in the various "how to dm guides" is what they showcase for things like illusion handling and stealth and the like. Things that have notoriously been vague and subject to widely swingy interpretations at the table.

Seeing the "this is how WOTC does it" will be interesting. Doesn't mean I will adopt it of course, but seeing how the designers themselves utilize those kinds of mechanics (and therefore, the power level assumed by those mechanics when they are designed), will be educational.

 

[dave2008]

ok, but that still is missing the point of the discussion you replied to and does not contradict what I wrote either, so not sure why you felt the need to point this out

because the post I replied to asked who would watch the video. Evidently 48K would

 

[dave2008]

That just makes it less likely experienced players are going to give WotC money for it. All those things are of less value to them in general. Is that what WotC wants?

I think new players are the market. This is not a new edition, experienced players don't need it (but still may find something useful).

You can look at pretty fantasy art for free on the internet.

I would rather pay professionals then scam of the internet constantly.

 

[OB1]

That just makes it less likely experienced players are going to give WotC money for it. All those things are of less value to them in general. Is that what WotC wants?

You can look at pretty fantasy art for free on the internet.

I think that since 2014, WotC's focus has been on onboarding new customers first, appealing to veteran players 2nd. I think they correctly surmised that veteran players tastes fracture at a level that makes it difficult to create a product that appeals to all of them, and so instead work to grow wider with the player base rather than deeper with the existing base.

I also have no idea if their choices with the DMG will result in fewer experienced player purchases, only that it's enough for me (as an experienced player/DM) to make the purchase.

Edit: Ninja'd by @dave2008 !

 

[OB1]

Yes and no.

You are correct that there are many more potential knobs that can be turned that will be provided in the DMG, but I disagree with you that there should be no knobs provided in the DMG itself.

There are some knobs(resting, skills, etc.) where it will be common for DMs/groups to want to turn them and alter the rules. However, not everyone is comfortable with building those knobs from scratch. A good analogy would be cars. When I go to buy a car, sometimes the base model features are not what I want, so I purchase one with added knobs. Even if the car dealership provided me with class to take the mechanical engineering of cars, I will not be comfortable buying the base model, taking it home, buying parts, and then doing the work myself add the feature I want to the vehicle. Some other people are and make their cars custom.

The DMG should provide the tools necessary for creating knobs of your own, but it should also provide those knobs that people commonly want in the game. Both are necessary for a good DMG.

I think it's the 'commonly want in the game' part that's the problem. Experienced DMs simply have too wide a range of want's to make this efficient.

That said, I think it would be great if they give some specific examples in relation to building your own campaign, and would love to see their take on a few 'house rules' for the included Greyhawk setting, along with explanations of why they are making the rule changes as a way to spark the imagination of DMs for their own campaigns and settings.