D&D General Dmg previews up

[dave2008]

They made a second video for bastions & it's almost exclusively player focused. The only time the GM really even comes up is to talk about them being off limits to the GM. There is an ocean between that and "detail about what's changed from a set of playtest rules that only a small portion of their audience will be familiar with."

I haven't watched the new video yet, but in the first video (or maybe it was the article) I was interested in the idea that it was a minigame that lets the players, in some respects, be their only little mini-DMs for their bastions. It is something they can work on off screen at home and not at the table. As a DM I found that very interesting and exciting.

So, I am very onboard with the bastion rules being heavily player focused. Unless I end up hating them of course

 

[dave2008]

See, to me that's an invitation to an arms race that is virtually guaranteed to lead to a power level on both sides that's higher than I would enjoy.

It can't really be an arms race when I, the DM, control all the weapons. I have no issue with just saying "No" if I need to. So it only goes as far as the fun allows and then it stops.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It can't really be an arms race when I, the DM, control all the weapons. I have no issue with just saying "No" if I need to. So it only goes as far as the fun allows and then it stops.

Less fun telling the your players they can't have something the book tells them they can have though.

 

[dave2008]

Less fun telling the your players they can't have something the book tells them they can have though.

Not really. Not for a mature group IME. And of course bastions are in the DMG, so it is not even in the player's book!

 

[dave2008]

...& after many many posts you eventually start mentioning the extensive house rules you have in place to mitigate or avoid those problems as you did earlier when you mentioned gold to train for leveling up after a back & forth with someone else.

It wasn't a multi-post back and forth. They asked and I answered, that was it. That is pretty typically of how conversations in good faith work.

 

[mamba]

Pardon, misread the thing. No, it really doesn't make any difference.

The maximum of 1d10+3 is 13. The average roll of 2d10+3 is 14.

sure, I am not disagreeing with what the average is, but the likelihood of you rolling significantly higher than the average is much better for low numbers of dice. Once you roll 5 dice you getting close to the maximum total is highly unlikely. If you roll 1d8 it is 25%

 

[tetrasodium]

It wasn't a multi-post back and forth. They asked and I answered, that was it. That is pretty typically of how conversations in good faith work.

Ok. First post all of your house rules that provide room to help offset some of the power added to PC's from bastions in an edition that we have no evidence to suspect is anything but still one where magic items are "optional" & monster math is pegged for mundane nonmagical gear. I seem to recall you once mentioning that your players start with a different pointbuy/starting array. After that we could have a discussion about why bastions adding power to PCs creates problems the GM need to solve (ie by reducing their starting arrays to make room for some of that power).

 

[Chaosmancer]

Well, it is NOT false. My opinions, likes, and feelings on the subject cannot be "false".

But your interpretation that for me it is MOAR POWER! can be and is false. Even if that is your feeling about what I want out of the game going forward.

My aplogies if you find the fact that I have different tastes from you insulting. It is no different than tastes in other things, such as movies, books, music, food, etc. Many people love fish, I find it disgusting, for example. Music is another example, some people like classical and find hip-hop or heavy metal or even jazz to be horrible noise--not music.

There is no insult in this, just different tastes.

Saying "some people like chicago style pizza and some people like new york style pizza" is explaining different tastes.

Saying "some people like new york style pizza and other people like garbage I wouldn't feed to a starving dog that just happens to be pizza shaped" is insulting to the people who hold that preference. And you intentionally decided to phrase things in an insulting manner, because there is essentially no non-insulting way to take your choice of phrasing.

Then why are you replying to it? If it bothers you let it go, right?

I posted about how surprised I am about the excitement portrayed in the video. The people are really into this 2024 D&D! And I prefaced it by realizing I just can't get as stoked about it, that I don't consider myself a "gamer" in that sense.

Just because you like something other people don't doesn't mean you have to defend it all the time. Like what you like and don't worry about others I guess?

I was replying to it because it gave me a springboard. It took me all of a single page to go from "Oh man, I wonder what the previews are" to "Oh god, this again? Seriously?!" Maybe even less. And the majority of this thread have either been baseless fears, or complaints about the things "obviously" not included in a product that we have barely seen a any text from.

And you know, I wish I didn't feel the need to defend what I like. I truly do. But so many people constantly tear it apart, half the time over flat out lies and misrepresentations, in every single discussion, that basically I can either defend the things I like about it and work to counter the misinformation... or I can stop looking for previews, stop participating in threads, and just stop engaging with the community all together. And it would be more bearable if they had defendable points of legitimate concern with the design, but usually it is someone who hasn't played 5e for six years because they left WoTC products for a 3rd party creator forever ago, haven't liked anything produced for DnD since 3.5, and have never had any intention of ever engaging with the product... beyond telling everyone who likes it how much is sucks for not being something it was never attempting to be. Or someone still harping about Backwards Compatibility.

True, you won't find a perfectly balanced game, etc., and I'm guessing the people who made it are the sort who find riffing on someone else's hard work "fun".

Yeah, which sucks.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The joke is that this update--as part of the pitch--included the claim that it was, in some sense, a balance pass. To have glaring zero-day issues appear is...disheartening.

I don't even know what pitch you are talking about.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But your interpretation that for me it is MOAR POWER! can be and is false. Even if that is your feeling about what I want out of the game going forward.


Saying "some people like chicago style pizza and some people like new york style pizza" is explaining different tastes.

Saying "some people like new york style pizza and other people like garbage I wouldn't feed to a starving dog that just happens to be pizza shaped" is insulting to the people who hold that preference. And you intentionally decided to phrase things in an insulting manner, because there is essentially no non-insulting way to take your choice of phrasing.



I was replying to it because it gave me a springboard. It took me all of a single page to go from "Oh man, I wonder what the previews are" to "Oh god, this again? Seriously?!" Maybe even less. And the majority of this thread have either been baseless fears, or complaints about the things "obviously" not included in a product that we have barely seen a any text from.

And you know, I wish I didn't feel the need to defend what I like. I truly do. But so many people constantly tear it apart, half the time over flat out lies and misrepresentations, in every single discussion, that basically I can either defend the things I like about it and work to counter the misinformation... or I can stop looking for previews, stop participating in threads, and just stop engaging with the community all together. And it would be more bearable if they had defendable points of legitimate concern with the design, but usually it is someone who hasn't played 5e for six years because they left WoTC products for a 3rd party creator forever ago, haven't liked anything produced for DnD since 3.5, and have never had any intention of ever engaging with the product... beyond telling everyone who likes it how much is sucks for not being something it was never attempting to be. Or someone still harping about Backwards Compatibility.



Yeah, which sucks.

A little hyperbolic, but I see your point. Sorry for my part.