DMG2 Riding Boots, prereq feats, and the CW Cavalier PrC

[Artoomis]

But isn't it the case that one of the effects of a feat is qualifying for prerequisites that look for that feat?

Or is qualifying for a prerequisite not an effect?

Okay, smarty-pants, here's more clarity :

To qualify you have to have the feat. Not something like the feat - you have to have used up one of your feats - or , of course, have the feat as a class feature.

The requirement is not that: "When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack." It's that you actaully have the Ride-By Attack feat."

Now, if the magic item actually stated, "While wearing this item, you gain the Ride-By Attack feat," we'd have an entirely different scenario here, but, as far as I know, no item does this so that weirdness does not even need to be discussed.

Gaining the effects of a feat by some other means is not the same as having the feat. If It was, than having the "Keen" enchantmebt on a weapon would be the same as having the "Improved Critical" feat, but it's clearly not the same thing and having a weapon with the "Keen" enchantment does not quaify you for having the "Improved Ciritcal" feat, now, does it?

The only other way to qualify would be to have something that states you count as if you taken the feat, but only class features do that as far as I know.

 

[Borlon]

But the keen enhancement does not have all the effects of the Improved Critical feat; it does not allow you to qualify for things that require the Improved Critical feat. If a magic sword, instead of being keen, granted you the effects of the Improved Critical feat, it should give you all the effects of that feat; including the ability to meet certain requirements.

Now if the riding boots enumerated their effect, then the issue of prerequisites wouldn't come up. But the item description doesn't say "When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack." Instead it says they "grant the effects of the Ride-By Attack feat". The only way that this does not include qualifying for prerequisites is if qualifying for prerequisites is not an effect of the Ride-By Attack feat.

So, just for clarity, is qualifying for prerequisites one of the effects of the Ride-By Attack feat?

 

[Artoomis]

...So, just for clarity, is qualifying for prerequisites one of the effects of the Ride-By Attack feat?

I'm not going to get sucked into that. Too much playing with words and attempts to be hyper-technical.

You don't qualify as having the feat. End of story.

 

[Hypersmurf]

To qualify you have to have the feat. Not something like the feat - you have to have used up one of your feats - or , of course, have the feat as a class feature.

I'm away from my Sword and Fist... does anyone have the wording of how virtual feats work handy?

For example, in 3E, a ranger didn't gain the feats Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting; he could only fight with two weapons as if he had them. A specific application of what the feats would normally grant.

However, the wording of the virtual feat rules allowed the 3E ranger to be treated as if he had those feats for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements as well.

Does it go into any detail about when something is considered a virtual feat?

-Hyp.

 

[Kershek]

Here's what virtual feat says from Sword and Fist:

If you effectively have a feat as a class feature or special ability, then you can use that virtual feat as a prerequisite for other feats. What does this mean? If you have, for example, some class feature or ability that says, "This is the same as Mobility," then you are considered to have the Mobility feat for the purposes of acquiring the Spring Attack feat. If you ever lose that virtual prerequisite, you also lose access to any feats you acquired through its existence.

 

[Borlon]

Does Kershek's citation match the wording of what the 3E Ranger has wrt Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting? I.e. does the 3E Ranger entry say "This is the same as Ambidexterity" like the quoted text does, or does it say something else?

[edit] Found it!

When wearing light armor or no armor, a ranger can fight with two weapons as if he or she had the feats Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting.

This seems to be a case where a ranger enjoyed the effects of the feats without actually having the feats. Do we know for sure that these feats could be used to satisfy prerequisites?

 

[Artoomis]

Does Kershek's citation match the wording of what the 3E Ranger has wrt Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting? I.e. does the 3E Ranger entry say "This is the same as Ambidexterity" like the quoted text does, or does it say something else?

[edit] Found it!

This seems to be a case where a ranger enjoyed the effects of the feats without actually having the feats. Do we know for sure that these feats could be used to satisfy prerequisites?

Yes, these are indeed "virtual feats." They are not from an item, though, but from a class feature.

Although S&F is not 3.5e (right?), I think that:

"If you effectively have a feat as a class feature or special ability, then you can use that virtual feat as a prerequisite for other feats.... "

still applies.

Note that getting the effects of a feat from an item is NOT effectively having a " feat as a class feature or special ability."

 

[Borlon]

I thought that you weren't going to get sucked in?

Surely magic items grant their users special abilities, don't they? (And/or various bonuses...)

 

[Artoomis]

I thought that you weren't going to get sucked in?

Surely magic items grant their users special abilities, don't they? (And/or various bonuses...)

"... a class feature or special ability"

A special ability you have, not one you get by way of a magic item. Including magic items is stretching things mighty far and could cause all kinds of problems.

 

[gabrion]

Artoomi-My fighter has a dex of 12 but he buys gloves of dexterity +2 so that he can take the dodge feat (cause it is so good). Is this ok?