DMs against the Magical Wal-Mart

[Calico_Jack73]

As for a PC saying 'I built my character around an axe', what nonsense.

I don't know about everyone else but as for me I'd get really ticked off if my DM didn't allow some place that I could commission a magical greatsword to be created for me when I'm playing a Fighter that has spent feats on Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization. I totally support the idea that a character can be built around a weapon. What if your character concept is to be the greatest duelist that ever lived? Finding magical greatswords and axes isn't going to do such a character a whole lot of good. Your feats and stats may make you the greatest swordsman but think about how higher end monsters have DR... the greatest swordsman in the world isn't going to have a chance if he doesn't get his hands on a magical weapon.

 

[Gort]

The thing about the table with the GP limit in the DMG is that it thinks a metropolis has 25,000 people in it.

First century Rome had at least 750,000 people in it.

And uh, since my campaign is based in a magical europe...

 

[Whisper72]

Hong,

Sorry if I was not very diplomatic. You are right that it is only my own view on things that I would consider a character based on a single weapon to be a strange way to play, but that it is a perfectly legit way to structure a PC.

On the other hand, if the PC is so built up around a certain weapon, then it should not be a necessity to get a magical weapon. So the PC with the Axe specialization finding a magical Sword in stead, would either:
- trade the sword at earliest opportunity but fight with it in the meantime cuz its magical
- trade the sword at earliest opportunity but fight with the axe in the meantime cuz that is the way he likes to fight.

The problem I had is that a character who wants to play a certain way must be flexible one way or the other:

Either you play the axe-guy and then the sword is 'useless'
Or your thirst for a magic weapon is so big, then you need to let go off the Axe specialty.

As DM I would be irritated by a player who wants to have it both ways, and is disappointed by finding a magical sword complaining 'its useless to me', 'you must give me something I like, why don't you let me buy it'.

On the other hand, there would IMHO never be anything wrong with the comissioning of a special weapon, tailormade to the precise wishes of the PC. Simply do not expect to carry only cash to that deal, the maker will want to see a 'fair trade'; i.e. magic for magic. But that is only the way _I_ would want to play it.

So again, sorry if I did not explain my gripe of inflexibility enuff, I was not trying to flame the choice of playing a weaponsmaster in and of itself, merely the way that someone would then expect to be treated, i.e. demanding to have instant access to the type of _magical_ weapon you happen to be specialized in...

 

[FireLance]

Then you could also look at game balance, if magic items can be bought and sold over the counter, whats the point of the DM putting them in the adventure to be found by the players?

But thats a different argument perhaps.

Indeed it is. It belongs in the same category as the question, "If non-magical items can be bought and sold over the counter, what's the point of the DM putting them in the adventure to be found by the players?"

 

[Altalazar]

Indeed it is. It belongs in the same category as the question, "If non-magical items can be bought and sold over the counter, what's the point of the DM putting them in the adventure to be found by the players?"

That's a very good point.

Also, I wonder if those who disparge magic shops imagine them as some sort of super-store, where any item listed in the DMG is sitting on a shelf (in quantities of a dozen) just waiting to be bought at book price.

I don't know of anyone who does it like that. A magic shop with a handful of specific items seems not only to not break anything, it just plain makes economic sense. Just because something is "magic" doesn't suddenly make it defy all the laws of economics.

 

[FireLance]

I don't know of anyone who does it like that. A magic shop with a handful of specific items seems not only to not break anything, it just plain makes economic sense. Just because something is "magic" doesn't suddenly make it defy all the laws of economics.

Well, let me just put on my economist hat. I suppose what some people object to is the idea that a shopkeeper could make a living just selling "magic items". This may indeed be true depending on the rarity of magic in the game. Perhaps it may be good to think of it in terms of demand and supply, and what kind of market structures may emerge under various conditions.

1. Steady demand, steady supply: For want of a better term, this is the D&D "baseline". There are spellcasters who regularly produce magic items, most likely low-powered and inexpensive items such as potions and scrolls, and there is a steady demand for such items, possibly from a fairly well-off "middle class" who can afford a few luxuries, magic-quality equipment, healing potions, etc. Magic shops can and probably should exist under such conditions. These shops may be tied to magical academies or temples, or they could simply be intermediaries between the buyers and sellers.

2. Low demand, steady supply: Most people don't really want or need magic items. On the other hand, spellcasters are more than willing to create magic items, provided the price is right. Magic shops will probably not exist under these circumstances as there would be insufficient trade to sustain them. However, magic items may still be bought and sold, but alongside their functional counterparts. A shop selling weapons may have a few magical ones for sale, for example, and a rogue's underworld contacts might sell some items that assist in stealth. Alternatively, magic items may simply be commissioned when required.

3. Steady demand, low supply: Spellcasters cannot or will not create many magic items and thus the supply is low. However, there is great interest in obtaining magic items. Again, magic shops will not exist as there is nothing to sell. The rich and powerful would probably employ agents to keep track of known items and make offers to buy as and when the owners no longer require them (or need cash more). Once in a while, an auction may be held and magic items sold to the highest bidder. However, more often than not, buying and selling is a private transaction.

4. Low demand, low supply: A market simply does not exist for magic items because nobody wants to make them and nobody wants to buy them. If you want magic items, you'll just have to find them or make them yourself.

I'm guessing most campaigns will fall into one of the above categories, most likely (3) for a low or rare magic world.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

To me, magic is nothing but the equivalent of "High Tech" in a Fantasy setting. Magic makes people's lives easier. It would be like telling someone in our modern world that they had to cook over a fire out in their backyard even though an oven was available. Both work and do the same job, the oven just does it faster and easier. The same with a regular sword and a magical sword. Both are used to kill a character's enemies, the magic sword just does it faster (more damage per hit) and easier (higher bonus to hit). In the end the enemy is just as dead with the magical sword as he'd be with the non-magical sword.
I've been DM'ing for some time now and I've rarely seen an instance where a bonus of +1, +2, or +3 to hit and damage was the real deciding factor in an adventure. You could give a 1st level Fighter a +5 Holy Sword but if he went after a Lich or even just a Troll with it he'd still get the crap kicked out of him. Balance is up the DM... well planned encounters properly challenge a group no matter what magical items the party has.

 

[Altalazar]

Well, let me just put on my economist hat. I suppose what some people object to is the idea that a shopkeeper could make a living just selling "magic items". This may indeed be true depending on the rarity of magic in the game. Perhaps it may be good to think of it in terms of demand and supply, and what kind of market structures may emerge under various conditions.

That goes more to the question of how many shops you'll find that sell ONLY magic items. As someone else pointed out, a blacksmith may end up with some magical weapons and armor for sale, and so forth.

Also, perhaps one could make a living selling just potions and scrolls, with the occasional odd item coming in and out.

And keep in mind that an item that is "magic" may still not necessarily be useful to a particular individual - in which case, they'll get rid of it. A halfling wizard may find little use in a magical greatsword. A fighter will find little use in a staff for wizards. A non-adventurer, non-combat type person would have little use for any offensive or even defensive magic items.

Adventurers tend to be amongst the richest members of society. One thing we all know is that people will money who are willing to spend it are able to find just about anything, given enough time.

Keep in mind, also, that there are things that are rarer than magic, and yet you can find those things for sale at times as well. A painting by a famous artist who died young is likely far more rare and valuable than the vast majority of magic items. Even the nicest looking +1 sword is still not unique in the sense that any wizard can make another. That painting is unique, and with the artist disintigrated and his soul imprisoned in the abyss for eternity, there will never be another.

 

[Pants]

Never useless? My character concept calls for my character to weild an ax. How is a flaming sword useful. It's not, you sell it and then use the cash to have somebody make you an flaming ax, it that's what your after.

Like I said, snarky comment.
"It's magic. It's NEVER useless. Worship your +1 Sword!"

 

[Emperor Valerian]

In my campaign world, it tends to be a mixture.

There are "magic shops," and they are well known and tend to advertise. However, one is not likely to find major or extensive magic items there... their inventory mostly consists of minor potions (heal, spider climb, etc.), a few minor items (alarm stone, etc.), and a few random things (a rose that magically stays fresh and smells wonderful all the time, etc.).

For magical weapons, adventurer's must either go to a mage, the mage's guild (which will demand compensation), or a religious order. If you're in good with one of the temple's, they'll sometimes give you magical weapons to finish your mission...

Otherwise, its loot loot loot the dead baddies...