DMs against the Magical Wal-Mart

[Trainz]

To bring this thread back on topic (sorry OP), I think that it's fair to assume that the majority of gamers do not want to spend too much time on economics and shopping; they'd rather go out there and do their thang.

That said, this has no correlation with the amount and access of magical items. Some campaigns will prefer little to no access to them, others will prefer a more accessible method of acquiring them. In both cases, it is preferable that the process not be too game-time consuming.

That said, I'm sure there's a few out there that find the buying and trading of magical items to be a good role-playing opportunity, in which they can interact with the other interested parties, and in this way bring another layer of life to the setting: the item seller becomes "alive", with his own set of goals (the PC's money) and his breaking point (at how much will he let the item go, and for how long will he try and get the most out of the trade).

But this would be better represented by a poll, which I will leave the OP the initiative to post or not.

 

[Quasqueton]

the (sorry) fact that most established/published campaign worlds have magic shops.

Where have you found mention of magic item shops in the core material? What campaign worlds have mentioned magic item shops? I don't know Forgotten Realms very well, but I do know the World of Greyhawk, and I don't know of any magic item shops in official WoG.

Like I said earlier, if it is assumed that adventurers don't buy their alchemist fire, plate armor, and spyglasses in mundane Wal-Marts, why does everyone keep talking about magic item Wal-Marts?

Quasqueton

 

[omnimpotent]

I'm fond of the organised crime fencing system myself. Most of the magical goodies players try to unload are of dubious provenance. There's what I would consider a real risk that said items are hot. Thus, it would be difficult to be an honest dealer in magical items. (This is also true for gems, jewelery, and art objects, but that isn't really our topic today)

Also, you would need a big investment in stock to deal such items, and a supply of ready cash to purchase said items. This lends itself rather well to a wealthy organisation.

With all that cash and expensive merchandise, security is an issue. Ideally, you want the kind of security that is intimidating, to discourage theft & stickups, dangerous, to stop those witless enough to ignore intimidating security, and capable of mounting recovery/revenge missions in case some sort of robbery is successful. This would suggest a dangerous organisation, who aren't terribly concerned about some of the niceties of law. It also rather discourages a "storefront" type operation, more of a "talk to the bartender" or "guy on a streetcorner" arrangement, where the goods are not on location. Thus, only the items in question will be available, and only after an arrangement.

Orders can be made through the front man, who can then check with an inventory on hand, maybe inventories held by allied operations in other areas, contacts in town of people who make items or may have them kicking around (retired adventurer or needy noble types and whatnot), or maybe an operation can be conducted to acquire a requested item from an "unwilling donor." As GM, you can still decide what items will be available, and can have the agent return with a counteroffer for a similar item if the requested item doesn't suit his campaign.

This creates a neat little circle of buying, stealing, and selling items, which can have adventure spinoffs like having a PC's item stolen for sale to unwitting third party, PC's as the unwitting third party purchasing a hot item whose owner manages to recognise or track it, or PC's hired to acquire an item from an "unwilling donor". Plus, stealing from and avoiding the wrath of the magic mob has possibilities if your PC's are of a larcenous bent.

On top of that, you can get your Godfather/Sopranos roleplaying fix even in a D&D game.

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

As a player, I can add that I think if all the magical items we ever wanted were THAT easy to obtain...honestly, I think it would take some of the fun out of it....

 

[Ovinomancer]

The DMG already allows for there to be wizard/sorcerers/clerics in any city/town/village. So, would it be hard to imagine that most of these practitioners would be motivated by the simple idea of making money? Just because a person has arcane/divine abilities does not mean he/she/it is above the basic desire for money. When you can scrap up 1,333gp for a masterwork sword and some material components, spend 2 days of work, and net 677gp in profit, why wouldn't you? Do this 3 times and you are in 100%profit land. Of course, you have to lose 80xp per sword to do this, but considering the fact that you may be able to retire in wealth, with a magnificent library to follow your own interests at your leisure, wouldn't you do this? Granted, high end items may take some convincing, but when you could retire on one commision with the wealth of a small country, the xp loss just doesn't seem that big.

I have never had a magical walmart in my games, both the ones I play in and the ones I run, but I do not restrict the purchase or sale of items within reason and the gp limit of the town the characters are in. I apply the common sense rule: would a mage be willing to make this item/have it on hand?
As for the sale of items at 50% of market value... if you consider that the person purchasing this item is the proprietor of the shop you are buying in, and that his the primary manufacturer of the goods, then 50% is the cost it would be for him to make the item (-xp), so why would he offer more?

 

[Count Arioch the 28t]

I allow it, in lrager communities.

Anything that can be bought with a minor treasure roll can be found fairly easily, or commisioned to be made. I charge market price.

Anything that's on a medium or major treasure rull can be found rarely, and not often could you pick and choose. The PCs have a merchant friend who is a go-btween, and finds anything in the PHB, but he charges a 10% finders fee, which is added to the market value. He will also buy magic itmes for one half their market value.

I honestly don't have a problem with buying or selling magic items, in a world where magic itmes are simple and easy to make, there's going to be a market ofr it. (Not like 2E, where it cost you 1 point of con per item, or 1E, where they couldn't have been made at all.)

 

[Woas]

Hey guys. I'd like to throw my 2¢ in here...

When I read the various DMG tables for how many certain NPCs with character classes are in a town, I do not assume that all those NPCs call the town home. These NPCs could be resting, re-equiping, looking for info for their own adventure, etc. just like the PCs. So just because it says in the DMG that there will be 7+this modifier+that modifier wizards, it does not mean there will be 7+this+that wizard towers to buy potions from. These wizards may have almost nothing on them themselves and might be looking for a deal just like the PCs are.

As far as "Ye olde Magik shoppee" go... I avoid these at all costs (usually). Instead I have other methods. One thing that I do is when the players are looking to go shopping, I will roll up a set of random treasure much like you would for monsters and dungeons. This list is usually much larger that the average treasure list depending on the size of the town. Every size category of town has its own modifier to how many Magic items and how many of those are minor and major that could be found there. Usually there are 'staples' on the list that the players know they will always find. 80% of the mudane items are staples. Simple weapons and light armor (except chain shirt) are staples. In larger towns, potions and scrolls are also staples.

Other things for more exotic goods involve things like fairs. I have a calendar for my homebrew world and it is rewarding for the Players to also follow the calendar. They may hear from a NPC that there is a huge festival in a certain town which draws vendors and merchants from all over. The fairs may last from one day to maybe even a month, depending. Because these fairs draw on such a large commercial base, the players might find the higher end magic items. I roll up treasure randomly just like I do for the towns, but with festivals and fairs, I increase the amount of major items, etc.

Another thing I like to do, and I think my players like as well, is the idea of enchantments. My players like it cause it lets them 'upgrade' their 'signature' weapons and all. Instead of finding a wizard or merchant with a bunch of flaming swords in a glass case... I have enchanters. The players will bring a weapon or item they have and ask for it to be enchanted with another ability. Some enchantments are not permanent and will only last a few days. The duration all depends on the price.

These are the backbone to the commerical aspect of magic in my homebrew. Other things exist, such as black markets, magical auctions and such, but are rarer and require the players to dig into it.

And of course, making the item oneself is always an option...

 

[Altalazar]

As for the sale of items at 50% of market value... if you consider that the person purchasing this item is the proprietor of the shop you are buying in, and that his the primary manufacturer of the goods, then 50% is the cost it would be for him to make the item (-xp), so why would he offer more?

Well, there is the small fact that he doesn't actually have to go through the time and effort to make the item. I'd think you could NEVER get an item just for "at cost" unless you had some sort of special arrangement. Why would anyone sell to him at a price that reflects only the raw material value of the item and none of the craft?

Sure, he could make it for 50%, but then he might need to spend several days or a week working on it. Those days are days he COULDN'T spend on anything else. So he'd be more than willing to pay above 50% to avoid having to spend the time on making it himself.

 

[Ace]

I allow non destructive items to be bought without a qualm subject to the wealth rules in the DMG (modified sightly as I have FR amounts of magic)

Now I use the power components rule-- No XP can be spent on item creation. Single Use items and items of up to +2 can be made from the inate magic in normal materials

Stronger stuff requires rarer components and do to the non abundance of materium (or thaum I use both terms) destructive items are rarely made except by Military Wizards -- This is a social control (as 1/10 of the population has the ability to use wands) and a material one

Single use items and items of up to +2 however are very common and easy to buy

Other items can be bought with some work or x units of Thaum can be at the rate of 25GP per unit. Thaum is identified with a spellcraft roll of DC15 (taking 10 is allowed too)

The players are expected to make their own items in that case. I figure if the players want 425 units of Thaum to make a wond of fireballs they can probably get it (at the rate of 25GP per unit) but it will raise questions and possibly more adventures heh heh heh...

 

[takyris]

I am SO putting a magical Wal-Mart in my next game...

Actually, check that. I'm putting a semi-sleazy retailer in there.

- - - - -

Hey, you intristed in cold? I got this Scythe of Frost, 'ere, that'll fix you up reeeeal good. You'll be connectin' with the baddies about 15% more often, and you'll be freezin' the lil' nippers when you do.

No? Maybe sumpin' in bludgeoning? I got a hammer that kills any vampire it hits. Guaranteed. You get a good hit on a vamp and he don't crumble to dust, you just bring it back to me and...

You talked to who? Well, yeah, he did try it out, and he did decide to return it, but did you see that guy? Those puny lil' arms of his? I figure this hammer was probably a bit too much for him. Probably my mistake to sell it to somebody who wasn't man enough to use it, which is why I'm bein' real discriminatin' 'bout who I sell it to this time. And anyway, he was talkin' 'bout the things he fought having these long-ol' paralyzin' tongues, and that don't sound like no vampire to me. I was pretty specific, if you recall.

Back to the scythe, then? Oh yeah, it's a good'un. Sure, it does a ton of damage if you get a real sweet hit. More cold? Uh, yeah, yeah, there's definitely more cold when you get a sweet hit. Yeah, definitely. So, you want me to box that one up for you?

Good, good. Now, that's gonna be 32,000. Would you be more interested in leasing it? Use it for a few months, then bring it back, for just 1000 a month? No? A buyin' man. I'd probably go that way myself. Hey, you want I should ring you up for our comprehensive warranty as well? Five years, anything happens to that baby, you just bring it on back and we'll...

Well, it's 2,000 a month. Sure, that sounds like a lot, but look at how much you're putting out right already. Another 24,000 per year is just a drop in the bucket. How much did you pay for your horse? Now, how much do you spend feedin' the horse, cleanin' the horse, curin' the horse when it gets whacked, and stablin' it every night? Huh? I mean, it's your game, pal, but the hot new ticket out there these days is admantine greatswords. Your baby gets hit by one of those, you're not using a Scythe of Frost anymore. You've got an Ogre-sized Sickle, and you're out 32,000. I'm just sayin'.

Payin' in exchange, are ya? Hey, that's great. Now, what have you got there? A flaming sword that's made to destroy demons? Really? Well, you're gonna have to pardon my skepticism, 'cause it's just that, well, it ain't flamin' right now, and that's a pretty... Oh, yeah, there it goes. You sure that ain't just a glamour? It doesn't look... well, it's a little hot, but I don't know, if I tried to sell that as "flaming", I'd have people all over me telling me that I was exaggerating. I might have to sell it as "hot" or "somewhat heated". As for that bit about demons, I'm gonna have to get back to you on that, 'cause, well, there ain't no demons here, and really, demons don't mind flame that much, so why would anybody put a big flaming special on a sword built to slay demons? I might have to have one of my boys look under the hilt there, verify all this. And you've got a title for this, right? I'm not gonna have some dark-armored guy clanking in here and declaring that you killed him and took his stuff and then he got raised and wants it back from me, right? If you don't have a certificate of ownership, I'm 'a hafta knock the trade-in price down a bit for insurance reasons.

Yeah, that lease is lookin' better now, huh? How about we get those papers signed right now? You're agreeing to pay a certain amount per month for use of the sword, without fail? That's just a common-sense kind of... you are? Great. Hey, that's wonderful. That odd headachy feeling? That was just a geas -- since you agreed to the deal, we just put that on there. I'm sure it won't come up for you. Probably don't even have to worry about it in your case, since you're a stand-up guy, but you know, policy.

Anyway, best of luck with that Scythe. You need anything else, you come on back now, ya hear?