DMs against the Magical Wal-Mart

[Quasqueton]

takyris, that was wonderful. Really. I'm gonna have to copy and save that.

And I can think of one barbarian/cleric who probably would take that warranty -- he's lost a masterwork greatsword to a sundering treant, a +1 greatsword to another treant, and a +1 holy greatsword to a rust monster.

Quasqueton

 

[reiella]

Where have you found mention of magic item shops in the core material? What campaign worlds have mentioned magic item shops? I don't know Forgotten Realms very well, but I do know the World of Greyhawk, and I don't know of any magic item shops in official WoG.

Like I said earlier, if it is assumed that adventurers don't buy their alchemist fire, plate armor, and spyglasses in mundane Wal-Marts, why does everyone keep talking about magic item Wal-Marts?

Quasqueton

Forgotten Realms has specific magic shops set up.

One chain of them, employs a central storage location, with nodes that sell said items through what amounts to teleportation.

Then there are the Red Wizards, who make it their 'business' to mass produce magic items in order to aid their goals that amount to effectively economic politics. Alot of the "folks in the know" realize that the Red Wizards aren't nice folks, but their constingency doesn't care so much about that because they can get cheap magic items from the conclaves.

 

[FireLance]

Another point that just occured to me. Why does everyone assume that magical items have to be sold in "magic" shops? If there is a shop selling weapons, why can't it sell magical weapons alongside masterwork and ordinary weapons? If there is a shop selling armor and shields, why wouldn't it have magical ones in stock as well? The rogue's underworld contacts must surely sell more than thieves' tools. Why wouldn't he be able to get vests of escape, cloaks of elvenkind and other magical devices that enhance his skills? Similarly, clerics have churches and wizards have their own networks for obtaining items useful to them.

If magic items are rarer than ordinary items, it is only because they are more expensive. As one previous poster had mentioned, a suit of full plate costs more than a +1 chain shirt, yet PCs often have less trouble simply "buying" the former than the latter. It would be very strange to me to play in a campaign where mithril and adamantine full plate can be easily obtained because they are non-magical, while finding a +1 suit of armor is difficult simply because "it's magical".

 

[Campbell]

I'm not sure that modern analogues directly apply, espicially in relation to market economies. While certain spells may imply that such economies would form based on our cultural biases, I'm not sure that are biases are correct. First if we're going for believability, it's important to realize that in a typical D&D world, power and money are not as intertwined as they are in our world. It's also important in my opinion to consider that Arcanists and espicially Clerics, probably have more important concerns then making cash. Mostly, I'd try to keep their high level of personal power in mind. While some open selling of magic items would probably happen, it's hard for me to see anyone settling down for much longer than it takes to refill some neccesarry coffers in order to pursue some other agenda.

Alright let me refocus. Let's take Dernav for example. Dernav likes to spend his time finding new uses for his arcane talents. Dernav can teleport across the continent, launch flaming spheres out of his hands, and spy on his enemies using magic. Since Dernav is powerful, he has a good deal of enemies. While he needs money to conduct his arcane research, and conduct his political affairs, Dernav only has a need for so much money. He also realizes that the more magical equipment he sells in the open market the less impressive his abilities become in relation to everyone else's. Now when Dernav needs some money to support his cash fliow problems, he makes magic items for people. However, Dernav is careful about his customers, because Dernav has enemies. He needs to minimize his risks, since he prefers not to get a sword,bearing his own arcane mark, plunged into his rather fragile guts. He also realizes that open advertising draws attention to himself, so Dernav works through a number of associates because Dernav doesn't like the idea of his political goals being upset because he decided that selling goods with martial capability to any bum off the street witha few gold pieces was a good idea.

I do prefer to run games with more archaic economies; I do this mostly due to the way such systems tend to emphasize the dynamic of personal power vs. finincial power, which I think adds value to my games. I'm no history or economics expert, but I believe market level economies started to propitiate due to an over-all leveling of personal power.

With that said, this is a fanatasy roleplaying game. I don't think anyone will ever be able to introduce a believable fantasy world based on D&D's assumptions, but my interpretations have worked for me. They might or might not work for you. Good gaming either way.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Just RTFM, guys.

In a Large Town (the minimum needed to be able to buy a +1 sword), of 2,001 people, you're already far beyond peddlers on the road...and certainly there's none in the smaller places...heck, it takes about 100 people just to buy a bloody *potion*....

....anyway, in that town of 2,001 people, there will be *at least* a 4th level Wizard just chillin' there. And there will be 2 2nd levels, and 4 1st level wizards. That's 10 wizards that are NPC's in the town (probably more clerics, about the equal for sorcerers).

10 wizards, you have a cabal...

....these aren't small little shops on the corner....by the book, town with a shop that can sell a +1 sword has at least 10 people that know it (assuming only one magic shop).

And by the time your population is 2,001, you're kind of out of the league of most medieval villages, methinks...perhaps the bigger urban centers and cities, but certainly not the same town where Joe Farmer gets his wheat.

 

[Aeric]

I see no problem with a magic item shop, but keep in mind that the asking price for most items is so high that, unless your campaign world has a large population of mid-to-high level adventurers, the only people able to afford them will be the nobility. In most cases, it just isn't cost-effective to crank out items to have in stock on the rare occassion someone comes in to buy one. More realistically, these shops would be hoity-toity "boutiques" where the patrons sipped on wine while outlining their order to a consultant. This is how it is run in my own world, at least for those noble families that don't just have wizards on the payroll to make stuff for them at home.

Lower-level items, especially one-use items like potions and scrolls, tend to be cheaper and therefore a bit more accessible. Even so, at 25gp, a potion of Cure Light Wounds is going to be out of the price-range of most working-class people. This creates a gap between the haves and the have-nots, a form of magical technoshock, if you will. The upper classes will be using magic on a constant basis, becoming jaded to it's presence, while the lower classes will still hold it in the awe and superstition they always have.

 

[Humanophile]

I feel out of my league here for being on the up-and-up with easy and convenient sales of magic? How do I do it? Simple. The players can cash in for as much as the DMG gives them (little more actually, since I tend to encourage consumables), and yes I let it be in items they can use, but it's rare that they stock up on the specific items that they want.

Items of mass destruction are out for the obvious reason, and most items with specific special powers are out because... well, IC it's because almost all casters are sorcerers, OOC it's because I'm not going to let my players go through the DMG like it was a buffet. You can probably find a sorcerer in a metropolis to make you a +5 sword without too much hassle. +4 flaming... okay, a little hassle to find a fire sorcerer. +3 flaming and keen? You'd better either have the spells and feats to do it yourself, or hassle a lot to get the right bunch of egotistists working together for you. Equal power, but I find that the player lust for bells and whistles will keep them working hard after the numerically equal but more desirable item.

And that, naturally, allows the players to be as powerful as they're supposed to, while still giving special stuff that gooey special feeling.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I see no problem with a magic item shop, but keep in mind that the asking price for most items is so high that, unless your campaign world has a large population of mid-to-high level adventurers, the only people able to afford them will be the nobility.

Well, the thing is, the rules in the DMG and PHB seem to suggest that mid-to-high level adventurers are in fact a viable profession for anyone in the world. It's the things that PC's do that makes them special, not the fact that they are ADVENTURERS!!! The bigger the city, the more high-level wonder-workers there are going to be just laying around, having already gone on adventures, and now willing to shell out their things to others who need them (or craft things specifically for them). That's why magic-item shops exist in default D&D......because there's other adventurers and dungeon-looters who make and gather things and wish to sell them, or buy something on commission, etc. The PC's aren't the only adventurers around, and probably aren't the most famous....the few 20th level guys in the big metropolis are the major movers and shakers....

 

[DragonLancer]

IMC you cannot walk into a tow or city and buy magic items other than perhaps low-level scrolls and potions. Magical items are too valuable to be bought and sold over the counter.

 

[Altalazar]

IMC you cannot walk into a tow or city and buy magic items other than perhaps low-level scrolls and potions. Magical items are too valuable to be bought and sold over the counter.

What about other items that are much more expensive than most magic items but are completely non-magical, like some of the better armor types?

In our society, cars are pretty damn expensive, and yet we see dealers all over the place.

What about items like a ring of climbing, which is way cheaper than a large number of mundane items that most certainly can be found in most cities? Or is it that items of any type, magic or non-magic, cannot be found if over a certain price? Yet does that price really reconcile with the very cheap non-potion/scroll magic items?