DMs and Player's Powers

[Nebulous]

Forked from: I think we're done with 4E

I like RUNNING 4e as a DM, the monsters are cool and encounters are easy to build and easy to wing, but i don't want to really play it. But the players are liking it a lot, so i suppose as long as we're both happy.

We played yesterday and something i've noticed cropped up again. There are so many powers and abilites that the group has that i'm not aware of. They keep pulling these weird abilities out that i haven't seen (we have new characters though, so that's expected) but i still can't keep track of what everyone does. I just can't read the PHB/splatbook powers section for fun because i don't enjoy it. It's boring. Hundreds and hundreds of simililary themed abilities.

This occured to me while posting on another thread, so i forked it here to expound on the subject. I like running 4e, but when it comes to fully understanding all the nuances of the players abilities, i really hit a wall. They tell me what their powers do, how many squares they shift or how much damage or whatnot, and there are probably some mistakes being made because we don't always double check unless something sounds really out of whack.

The problem is that i don't like the hundreds of similar powers. SHOULD i be reading the PHB powers section constantly and making characters to get a better feel for their side of the game, even if just to abjudicate rules calls? I used to like making characters in prior editions, but i'm feeling a disconnect there in 4e. I just wondered if anyone else was feeling the same way.

 

[Byronic]

No, I feel much the same way. the problem is that much of 4th edition, especially the powers and such are absolutely and completely boring on paper. Mechanically, on paper, the characters just feel the same. Even different classes don't feel that much different. It doesn't really help that you're going to have to look through page after page of powers that all look the same.

In play this is different, although the most difference is in character concept.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Forked from: I think we're done with 4E



This occured to me while posting on another thread, so i forked it here to expound on the subject. I like running 4e, but when it comes to fully understanding all the nuances of the players abilities, i really hit a wall. They tell me what their powers do, how many squares they shift or how much damage or whatnot, and there are probably some mistakes being made because we don't always double check unless something sounds really out of whack.

The problem is that i don't like the hundreds of similar powers. SHOULD i be reading the PHB powers section constantly and making characters to get a better feel for their side of the game, even if just to abjudicate rules calls? I used to like making characters in prior editions, but i'm feeling a disconnect there in 4e. I just wondered if anyone else was feeling the same way.

There are hundreds of powers, but the truly problematic ones can be counted on ten fingers or less. There is very little in Martial Power that will derail your game if you're not aware of it. This is very much unlike 3E, where you had to know what your players could do or they could walk all over you. Familiarizing yourself with 4E's trouble spots is as simple as posting a thread on the 4E forums. The trouble spots are few enough and well known enough that you'll get a good description of all of them from that thread. The only true issue I would see with using something like Martial Power sight unseen is if you have a player who can't be trusted to use the rules as written, and instead creatively misinterprets the rules for his/her own benefit. I happen to have a player like that, and his character has to be gone over with a fine tooth comb. In 3E, he was light years worse. That being said, this is a player issue and not a game issue.

 

[fba827]

if you feel like you can trust your players (generally speaking - basically, you don't think they would _try_ to screw things over, though they may occasionally on complete accident) then, no, it's not worth reading all the powers since you don't enjoy it.

And just keep doing what you're doing of letting them tell you what their powers do, and if something seems completely out of whack then actually go ahead and read it.

Me, personally, since I get to play in one campaign and DM in another, and I actually enjoy reading powers (because I enjoy just generating all sorts of characters, many of which never get to see game play), then I do read many of the powers (at least once) and so I have a vague idea of what the PCs in my campaign can and can't do. But if they bring up something I'm not familiar with, I just trust them (unless something just seems very off compared to the general power level that they have).

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I don't as a DM read all the powers, hell my players don't even say what Powers they are using. They simply give the narrative response and say what happens mechanically (after the dice are rolled).

As for being a player, I don't mind reading all the Powers. Since for me it is almost like fitting together a jig-saw. I make up a character concept and I find all the Powers that best fit that concept, and slowly build up the character, I personally find it makes it a lot more fun and makes each character more unique and in tune with what I want (big selling point for me).

 

[malraux]

I tend to figure that a player should be the expert in his own character. Assuming you trust your players, and why waste time gaming with people you don't trust, then letting them use their powers is reasonable. I often joke with my group that one of these days I should actually read the PHB, because I really don't feel like filling my brain with lists of powers and what they do.

BTW, a good compromise if for your players to make power cards of some form so that the power is written clearly as in the book. Then if there's a question, reading the card should clarify the what the power does.

 

[Nebulous]

BTW, a good compromise if for your players to make power cards of some form so that the power is written clearly as in the book. Then if there's a question, reading the card should clarify the what the power does.

Yes, we absolutely do this, use power cards, and we have one player who is kind enough to print and laminate them all. He's also really good at having a grasp of what the player's powers do for each class, and in many aspects functions as a co-DM in that respect. I just feel like I perhaps should have a firmer grasp on the powers personally. But yes, we refer to the power cards a lot to clarify things. I can't really imagine playing the game half as effectively without them.

I trust my players and don't think they would intentionally try to screw me, although mistakes are bound to happen.

 

[justanobody]

One thing that helps with 4th edition is to find a happy place where you remember something you enjoyed about D&D and keep that place in mind while doing combat, and once the minis game is over run into that happy place and get back into D&D mode for the stuff outside of combat. Combat does really take you out of D&D and into a minis game.

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, in my game players often ask for advice on which powers/feats to choose after leveling up or even discuss it with the whole group. I also collect the character sheets after every game session and will often have a look at them when preparing for a session. So I typically know quite well what each of them can do.

I'm still sometimes surprised because I didn't notice something or misinterpreted a power, but that's part of the fun.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I like it when the player's surprise me. It's happened with tieflings and fire and a few other areas. It makes the game exciting.

Now if you're playing with people prone to abusing the system and your trust, it can be an issue but I probably wouldn't be playing with such people in the first place.