DM's Campaign Vision vs. Player preference

[Thia Halmades]

And that's where I'm going. The Shaman, I'm not saying that the character portrait argument isn't absurd; I'm agreeing that it is. I find it so absurd, in fact, that I dismissed it as being a symptom, instead of the disease. The bigger picture here is that the player is out and out disruptive, and isn't playing well with other. D&D, like football, is a team game. It has team drama, and team conflicts. She's causing a Terrell Owens type stir without having his innate athletic ability.

 

[ThirdWizard]

If a DM told me that my character illustration was unsuitable for the campaign, I would have a very hard time going back to the gaming table.

Would you bring a picture of an elf to represent your dwarf? Would you be offended if the DM didn't think that was an appropriate representation?


Personally, I detest DM/Player power struggles. I havn't put up with that in years and years. If she really is clashing this bad, you don't need an excuse of a picture, just do what is best for the game and put your foot down. If that means tossing her out and losing the husband, so be it (he would basically have to leave with her). The game will be more enjoyable in the long run that way.

 

[The Shaman]

It's that the player wants the cake - having whatever benefits and background the race provides - without the consequences, I think.

Or is it that she can't find an illustration that matches DonTadow's vision of what is "correct" for the setting? He said she's come to him with four illos, I believe, but that they didn't have the right skin tone.

Don's repeatedly said she does things that are disruptive to the game and create an antagonistic environment.

Agreed - that's the issue that needs to be addressed, not the "DM's vision v. player preference."

I turn the argument back on itself - why is she, after repeated requests to do so, refusing to describe her character in terms of the race the character is? It's like saying - 'I want to be a dwarf! But not a short dwarf.'

Yes, and DonTadow has repeatedly bent his setting to fit this player's whims, but can't settle on an illustration, and sees that as interfering with his "vision." Please forgive me if I see "vision" as being the least important issue here.

It's funny that you picked the example of the "not-a-short-dwarf," Jim Hague, because I encountered that exact situation many years ago - a player insisted that his dwarf was 5'6" tall. I thought about it for awhile, then shrugged my shoulders and let him play his giant dwarf - and then proceeded to have just about every NPC in the setting mock the devil out of him. I treated his character as the freak it was. Did this break my "vision" of the setting? No - he was simply a Dwarf of Unusual Size, and I played the game-world accordingly.

Is it possible, in the case of this dark elf that wants to have a spy/assassin background to still come from the setting-specific constraints of being a slave girl? Could there be no mentor, no opportunity to gain these skills in the service of her mistress, that would jibe with the setting conceits? Is there no way for the setting to react to this anomalous character that maintains the illusion of the game-world? If the answer really is no, there isn't, then THAT was the place to draw the line, not at the character portrait!

Here's the part that just floors me...

It's not about her behavior, its about the image of the character....At issue is what I deem the integrity of the campaign.

I'm sorry, but in every post it sounds like this is absolutely about her behavior, not the "integrity of the campaign."

Deal with the disruptive player, and the integrity of the campaign will take care of itself.

 

[Luce]

While I do agree that if the player is trying to ruin the game you should stop invating her/him. One should try working out the problem first (which you did).

I am not sure if this will work for you, could not you take one of the pictures she send you, open it with Paint (or what ever picture editor you like and make some chaneges of color and such) Or as there are thousants of pictures on-line find a "mug shot" you like (as face structure goes) and just edit the colors.

 

[The Shaman]

And that's where I'm going. The Shaman, I'm not saying that the character portrait argument isn't absurd; I'm agreeing that it is. I find it so absurd, in fact, that I dismissed it as being a symptom, instead of the disease. The bigger picture here is that the player is out and out disruptive, and isn't playing well with other. D&D, like football, is a team game. It has team drama, and team conflicts. She's causing a Terrell Owens type stir without having his innate athletic ability.

Good example!

Agreed on all points, BTW.

 

[Thia Halmades]

The Shaman: Ah, I found the quote you're referring too in your thread.

Originally Posted by The Shaman
The aim of the RPG is not to eventually create a story. Any story that evolves during or after play is a bonus that is developed by the participants who enjoyed playing a game. - E. Gary Gygax

I can say with absolute certainty that I would throw this out the window. Not because I disagree that playing a game isn't what this is about; it IS about playing a game, but the game I play is story-driven. We constantly compare our hobby to film, literature, etc. Any medium we enjoy has some sort of story holding it together. Except maybe Pong, but I'm sure if you dig deep enough you can find a Pong fanfic.

I come from a very specific (and narrow) mindset. In order for me to do what I do, which is tell stories, there are certain concessions that have to be in place on both sides for everyone to succeed and enjoy 'the game.' Someone has to write all this stuff out; someone has to plan the dungeon. Somewhere in there, someone's going to ask "Why?" Why a dungeon, not a castle? Why IS the wizard trying to kill us? Why are these goblins raiding? Whose side are we on, really? And, if we live in a medieval world, why didn't I retire at level three with my 8,000 gold and a couple of really, really hot chicks from the local town?

I totally grasp how people can just sit down with their characters and dungeon crawl. I do get that. But it isn't anywhere close to what I do. If I've got people in a dungeon, they know exactly why they're there, what they need to do, and they actively care about the outcome.

But that's me, that's my signature. YMMV.

 

[DamionW]

D&D, like football, is a team game. It has team drama, and team conflicts. She's causing a Terrell Owens type stir without having his innate athletic ability.

LOL. I don't even like football and that's a great example.

 

[DonTadow]

I think you're hitting the nail on the head. I am tired of making concessions for this player. I have let other players redo whole characters, pick extra feats, have a few skill points and change races at points. I'm all about players being happy so long as they can write me upa good reason for the changes and it doesnt become a repeat thing. I just had two characters whom were not happy with their character redo their characters to fit more of how they imagined it. But with her, its every other week something different.

I need to draw the line at changing the world. the last time I changed what I shoudl have done for her I regretted it. She was playing a priest and for some reason (not explained to me) she left the church, stole some churchly artifacts and put herself in an Inn. I told her I"d have to strip her of her divine powers as she essentially left her god. She reasoned that she was tired of following the head priests orders and did not want to worship a religion that controlled the goverment (it was a theocracy). What shoudl have happened was a court marshall, hanging and at least the loss of her divine powers. Those were the rules I told the party about those whom are caught defying the church.

But, she emailed me and whined about how i shoudln't punish her for keeping in flavor of the character. Thinking about how much losing "the cleric" would have hurt the party, I opened my Atlas crime and punishment book and found a nice spell she could be placed under that woould mark her with a large snake on her face and prevent her from using her magic for things that would not help the church. For three sessions she emailed, wrote notes and complained about how it was not fair that the mark was on her .

There's also that same cleric agreed to be the protector of an artifact weapon "one of the six major get items in the game". In npc form the weapon told her it was a huge reponsiblitiy and that it would emerge if she performed acts that it would not. She hastedly agreed despite my warnings that this is a big responsiblity. Even another player, whom has a similair weapon attempted to explain to her the raminfications and help her deal with the weapon to which she told the player ooc "I have dealt with intelligent weapons before I know how to handle them". The player and I both sent her notes on the weapon, to which she later admitted to not reading. So after she burned a child and a gnome (killing them both) in order to kill some aberration bugs she failed a will save and the weapon took control of her body. Again one more week of complaining about it being unfair for her not to play her character the way she wants and finally she stopped coming for two weeks, then told us that her daughter had soccer practice and she wouldnt be back until the end of the year.

 

[The Shaman]

Any medium we enjoy has some sort of story holding it together. Except maybe Pong, but I'm sure if you dig deep enough you can find a Pong fanfic.

Now Adventure could provide the basis for some terrific fanfic...

If I've got people in a dungeon, they know exactly why they're there, what they need to do, and they actively care about the outcome.

So do the characters in my games: they're there to kill things and take their stuff, then survive long enough to blow it all on ale and happy endings.

 

[Thia Halmades]

Aye, there's the impasse. And I'm in no way saying, or even suggesting, "That's wrong." But it is an adjustment if you aren't used to the way I handle things. A night of hack'n'slash is great, but I prefer it on my Xbox or PS2. My passion is telling stories, and the stories I tell are rather complex, and often involve a great deal of killing. My game generally doesn't support +3 Daggers of Ogre Slaying, or the phrase: "If there's any girls there, I wanna JUMP THEM!!"

I have, however, had people cast Magic Missile at the darkness.