DMs: What Powers Do PCs Get That You Hate?

[KarinsDad]

Come and Get It can just be wonky in terms of story- you have two bodyguards protecting an important non-melee badguy... and suddenly, you've pulled him into combat without having to roll, and mark him so he's not moving away.

Yeah, the whole "I'm a Fighter, I can telekinesis people not next to me around the battlefield" schtick is so MMORPG.

Come and Get It is one of my pet peeves.

 

[keterys]

I do wonder what percentage of complaints about Come and Get It would go away if it were a paladin power instead.

 

[KarinsDad]

The other is wall of fire. I would be fine if it was just a straight line, but it doesn't read that way. Who heard of a wall that could double back on itself? My guys use it so effectively, unfortunately, it takes them 10 minutes to figure out exactly how to do that. This square...no, this square, what about moving it this way and getting these 2 squares.

We had that occur with Wall of Stone yesterday. I think I will play it touch move like Chess "Draw your wall and once you place a square, you place it and no take backs". It might drop it to 5 minutes that way.

 

[KarinsDad]

I do wonder what percentage of complaints about Come and Get It would go away if it were a paladin power instead.

I would have less of a problem with it being a divine spell instead of a martial power, but it still has the issue of moving foes without a die roll.

 

[keterys]

We had that occur with Wall of Stone yesterday. I think I will play it touch move like Chess "Draw your wall and once you place a square, you place it and no take backs". It might drop it to 5 minutes that way.

Or just increase the time, as they try to figure out optimal placement in their head, slowly.

Just say 'You have 30 seconds to place your wall. Go' or something similar. Or just get rid of wall powers. Poof.

I would have less of a problem with it being a divine spell instead of a martial power, but it still has the issue of moving foes without a die roll.

Lots of stuff does that - Forceful Push is effect slide 1, lots of dailies push or slide on a miss. There's a rogue power that lets you slide 1 before every attack. Etc.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Lots of stuff does that - Forceful Push is effect slide 1, lots of dailies push or slide on a miss. There's a rogue power that lets you slide 1 before every attack. Etc.

I do not see much problem with Come and Get it. Lots of powrs cna move people, and this is 7th level, a level wbhere the class should have something cool to do, or a power to build around. I know my DM dislikes the fighter using this and Ring of Personal Gravity to lock the guys around him for the encounter. It is potent combo, but there are ways around it, like beatin the fighter to tar, and that has worked a couple times.

AL<so note hte fighter's mark will wear out at the end of his next turn, unless he attacks all adjacent enemies again. So they are stuck one round, and then can shift away.

 

[KarinsDad]

Lots of stuff does that - Forceful Push is effect slide 1, lots of dailies push or slide on a miss. There's a rogue power that lets you slide 1 before every attack. Etc.

I think you are over exaggerating the word "lots".

Forceful Push does 1 square instead of 2, 1 opponent instead of upwards of 8, and does not have a damage element at all.

Daily powers are not Encounter powers.


The vast majority of slide powers (probably 95% or more) only allow a slide if a successful to hit is accomplished.

 

[firesnakearies]

I don't have any problem with Come and Get It. I am a bit baffled at the amount of hate leveled at this power, to be honest.

I've seen one thing that's unquestionably true about it: players really enjoy using it. The guy playing the Fighter almost always has a lot of fun with Come and Get It, and it's usually their best moment of most mid-level encounters.

 

[Aulirophile]

I think you are over exaggerating the word "lots".

Forceful Push does 1 square instead of 2, 1 opponent instead of upwards of 8, and does not have a damage element at all.

Daily powers are not Encounter powers.


The vast majority of slide powers (probably 95% or more) only allow a slide if a successful to hit is accomplished.

Warden's Lure, Earth Roots, Trick Strike (sort of IIRC), Warden's Tempest, Compulsion. Those are slides. Room for Carnage, push.

That is from memory... I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that 95%. Also Come and Get It is awesome and people should be ashamed for not liking it. Remember rounds technically happen all at the same time, in game terms, the turn-based aspect is merely an affectation. So fluff it "The fighter expose a weakness in defenses that the enemies simply couldn't ignore" or "He taunted them into attacking against their better judgement, mocking their ability to penetrate in his defenses!" so they came closer.

As an actual fencer number 1 happens constantly in actual spars.

Also past a certain point Invokers can daze things and get them 10 squares away with a push. Super fun!

 

[KarinsDad]

Warden's Lure, Earth Roots, Trick Strike (sort of IIRC), Warden's Tempest, Compulsion. Those are slides. Room for Carnage, push.

...

It is awesome and people should be ashamed for not liking it.

...

So fluff it

Trick Strike requires a hit.


The problem with the powers is that there is no defense against them except in some cases, a possible Immunity to Charm or something.

Take Compulsion for example. The Bard can move Orcus if he wants to with a 5th level power.

It's an issue of fluff. It doesn't make sense that powerful creatures can be pulled around like lynch pins 100% of the time. No save. No to hit.

It's bad design IMO.

As for being ashamed, I think people should be ashamed when awesome takes priority over balance and reasonableness.