DMs who dislike using minis during combat?

[Uller]

I miss my comfy lazy boy.

We game in two different places: at my house we play at the dining room table. At the other house, in the living room with the players on couches and the DM at a card table...While sitting on a couch is very comfy, in my experience the relaxed atmosphere leads to players being distracted. There are a lot more side conversations and distractions when the players are too comfortable. YMMV of course.

All of this is obviously contingent on the style of the group and DM. I prefer the "wargame" aspect of important combats and I don't care that it is illogical for a PC to have a "god's eye view" of the battlefield (of course, the DM can hide those foes that the PCs are unaware of).

Our battles run plenty quickly. Players have only one character to worry about in the battle and can usually quickly decide what to do on their turn. If they take too long, I move them along with a "Well?"

 

[SurfMonkey01]

I'm one of those people who doesn't like using minis if it can be avoided -- it's not that I have a major problem with them, mind you. I just have enough faith in myself and my players that I feel we don't need them. Every time I've played in a game that used them, imagination and roleplaying seemed to go out the window, as if they thought we were playing a tactical minis game and not an rpg...

If I have to use them, I do. But if my players and I feel confident that we can handle the intricacies of a combat without them, well, we do.

 

[StalkingBlue]

Two aspects IMO - battle grid for one, minis for another.


I've always used a battle grid and counters to help visualise combat when I could (heck, the first RPG I ever played a genertion ago or so came with a pad of grid paper to draw dungeons on, some dice and little else) - but for a while I also was one of three rotating DMs in a group that hated battle grids and never used them, so I tried to adapt to their style.

IME from comparing both styles, a battle grid can be a brilliant tool to help avoid misunderstandings. As others have mentioned, there is no "perfect description" - visualisation always helps.

Also using the battle grid hasn't considerably slowed down the game when I've used it, or when I've played in games where the DM used one. Scribbling a few lines on the battle grid to show the tactical layout is a matter of seconds really, as long as you aren't overly concerned with drawing a beautiful tactical map. House, tree, road, river, a squiggle for the entangle effect, and you're set. It helps when a player has a cloth handy to wipe out the old sketch and make a room for a new one once combat is over.

Most players I've seen have a good grasp of what their movement rate is and where they want to move on their turn, so I haven't encountered excessive square counting.
That is, except for area spell effects. That bit can be a pain when the player isn't the type who will work out what to do before their turn comes up. OTOH when no battle grid is used, it's up to the DM alone to determine the outline of a spell effect, which can be frustrating for players of spellcasters who like to get ready to act once their turn comes up rather than lapse into endless Q&A games with the DM to determine where it's safe to centre their spell.



I never played in a game where minis were used until about a little under a year ago, and never had minis available in any game I ran until a couple of months ago (always dice or counters only).

I've found that minis can add a lot to the tactical setup. It's easier to intuitively see who is who and what is what with more visual clues than coloured, numbered counters on the battle grid. Also you're unlikely to forget the reach of a frost giant that towers over the figure of your character, three times your size ...

But there is a danger in minis that I've never encountered when using counters: both players and DM may come to over-rely on the minis to replace (rather than add to) description, which isn't a good thing.
I was rather startled recently when I started to set a scene for an encounter and a player interrupted me to ask whether I couldn't simply set the whole thing up on the battlemat!

I'm still in favour of using minis for the added visual clues, overall I think they increase the efficiency and speed of gameplay in combat. But I now can see where the sceptics are coming from.

 

[Qualir]

That is, except for area spell effects. That bit can be a pain when the player isn't the type who will work out what to do before their turn comes up. OTOH when no battle grid is used, it's up to the DM alone to determine the outline of a spell effect, which can be frustrating for players of spellcasters who like to get ready to act once their turn comes up rather than lapse into endless Q&A games with the DM to determine where it's safe to centre their spell.

I handle those pesky AoE spells with precut cardboard templates. Hey I have to do something with all the boxes from Amazon This totally cuts back on the square counting and demonstrates how big that fireball is nicely. All in all it is much prefered to the old random die I used to impose on AeO spells.

 

[Numion]

I'm one of those people who doesn't like using minis if it can be avoided -- it's not that I have a major problem with them, mind you. I just have enough faith in myself and my players that I feel we don't need them. Every time I've played in a game that used them, imagination and roleplaying seemed to go out the window, as if they thought we were playing a tactical minis game and not an rpg...

If I have to use them, I do. But if my players and I feel confident that we can handle the intricacies of a combat without them, well, we do.

I share your feelings, except that I never use minis. We don't own a single miniature, and haven't felt any need for them.

I guess it has something to do with our own playing experience. People in my group have played 16+ years, and never once used minis, so the need or want isn't just going to pop up from nowhere.

The DM does the things people normally use minis for. He tells if there are AoO's or who gets hit with that spell. Combat is handled pretty much like it was handled for the past 15 years.

 

[tarchon]

I'm personally not inclined to use them, but if other people in the game want to, it's no big whoop either way.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

I used to resist it when minis were all metal and as such expensive. Though as time has gone on, and I had more money (because I got an actual job after graduating college) and the minis became less expensive (Mage Knight, Hero Clix, D&D), the cost was not really a factor any more.

I honestly look back and wonder how I played without them. It makes combat go much much faster. I grab little things from around the house to represent an alter. I can get a videotape and lay it down, showing it is a raised platform and so on. (If you have small dogs, they tend to try and swipe the minis, let me promise you that.)

I don't run D&D that often - I usually run Supers games. But they have been a godsend and I don't even have all that much combat in my supers games. If I ran D&D on a regular basis, I can assure you I would use minis every time. For those who are opposed to it, I would encourage you to at least try it.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

The best battlegrid experience I've had is on a laptop rather than with minis - just so much less clutter and mess - end up with stuff that's either anonymous or looks just right...

We've got a very 'techno' GM at the moment, new experience for me (and him I think!) but so far, it's great. If I wasn't so darn poor I'd get my own laptop for my games!


I'm in completley 2 minds about battlegrids...

I tried to lay out my thoughts in a sensible manner, but my fingers can't type properly today... here goes:

Battlegrids are less ambiguous, which is both a good and a bad thing. YMMV, but some types of campaign can benefit from the 'grey area' in combat - particularly swashbuckling kind of stuff, where we tend to play fairly 'fast and loose' with quite a few of the rules.

Description methods can be quite arbitary. It's entirely possible for a GM to play favorites with that kind of combat. Although, I think that's a general warning of a bad game... if it's happening with combat, then chances are it'll happen everywhere.

Battlegrids can also slow the game down, but are good for keeping track of large numbers of combatants wihtout missing anything...

Currently, IMC, I'm using a 3rd method. Rough hand-drawn maps with no scale. It works great for another GM who I stole it from, but I'm not finding it entirely right... not sure why yet!