Do animated undead add to EL?

[irdeggman]

Does a wizard's familiar raise the EL of the party?

Does a charcacter get xp for killing a familiar?

How about cohorts?

How you answer these questions also serves as a basis for handling the original question, IMO.

 

[Patlin]

If the cleric animates the dead during the battle or even immediately before it, using one of his available spell slots for the day, award no additional xp for the undead. In this circumstance, it's no worse for your players than if the cleric had cast another spell of the same level.

On the other hand, if the cleric animated the undead some time ago, has had an opportunity to rest, and has renewed his resources since creating them, then you should count the undead as additional monsters and award xp for them.

There are some grey areas, but they can be resolved at the discretion of the DM.

 

[Sporelock]

Irdeggman -
Certainly no one would not get any extra xp for killing a caster’s familiar but that is not a good comparison because a standard familiar is very weak in combat with little chance to do much damage and dieing very easily, it is only one creature, and when it dies the caster takes an xp hit and he cannot get a new one for an entire year.

Not sure about cohorts but I imagine since they are extra individuals that they would be worth xp.

 

[moritheil]

Moritheil

The fighter’s EL would be based on him at his best, not unarmored, weaponless and helpless, so if anything, the EL of the fighter would be lessened because he does not have armor (not saying that is what I would do, if the party were clever and timed their attack right, then they should be rewarded)

Exactly. Why not similarly assume the cleric's EL is based on him at his best? If the group takes steps to catch him when he is not at his best (perhaps having sent some undead away to perform some task, or sneaking in past undead sentries and thus catching the cleric without undead) then they should be rewarded. If they insist on fighting him at the peak of his readiness, then they get to fight some undead along with him.

 

[Klaus]

If the cleric is encountered with less 3rd-level spells because he used those to Animate Dead, then no, the undead aren't worth extra XP.

OTOH, if the cleric used Animate Dead and then recovered his spells and is at full force, then yes, the undead are worth extra XP.

 

[moritheil]

A Clr 5 that is hidden behind a illusory wall on a ledge above the PCs while his CR 1 UD are down below........is probably a EL 7.

Unless you're using the rule in the Book of Traps, Challenges, and Puzzles, which specifically states that the EL of an encounter does not increase simply because the enemies have favorable positions - instead one should give 15-25% more XP.

Certainly no one would not get any extra xp for killing a caster’s familiar but that is not a good comparison because a standard familiar is very weak in combat with little chance to do much damage and dieing very easily, it is only one creature, and when it dies the caster takes an xp hit and he cannot get a new one for an entire year.

I disagree that the combat ability of the familiar has anything to do with it. The familiar is part of the package because it is one of the wizard's class features.

Not sure about cohorts but I imagine since they are extra individuals that they would be worth xp.

I would disagree. If the NPC took Leadership, he has spent a feat slot and the resulting cohort is part of his resources. If the NPC did not have Leadership or a similar feat or class feature, and the cohort is there only because of the storyline or other DM intervention, then that is different.

The main question to ask yourself is - is the NPC giving up anything to get this? With animate undead, the NPC is paying for spell components and spending time to animate the undead. I personally disregard how efficient that use of resources is as long as resources are legitimately spent. (I do take great pains, however, to reserve the most efficient uses of resources for the most intelligent and/or wisest BBEGs.)

By that logic, a bard with a high Diplomacy could be accompanied by "friends" who give no XP, dungeons full of traps constructed by the kobolds therein give no experience, and so on.

A bard who uses a high Diplomacy check has not expended any resources. I would give XP for the friends. One who charms a low-level fighter, though, has used daily spell slots to do so, and thus I would give no XP; it is simply an optimal use of the bard's resources.

The kobolds and traps are probably not going to be one encounter, but if they were somehow all in the same encounter, I would not give any additional XP - provided that the cost of the traps was subtracted from the kobolds' resources, and the skill points were allocated accordingly. I frankly don't think it's possible to do this for a typical low-level kobold encounter, as traps are pretty expensive. Since the trap cost for a typical low-level kobold encounter does not come out of kobold resources, it is right to treat them as separate obstacles. And if you're going to encounter the traps and the kobolds separately, it becomes a moot point, as they are separate encounters.

Let me point something out - many spells, such as Celestial Brilliance and Dominate Monster, have durations longer than one day. I allow the players to benefit from such spells for multiple days even though using the results of those spells in encounters does not lower their spell resources for that particular day. Why would I not allow NPCs to do the same? This is the reason the "cast this day" or "cast right now" line of thought strikes me as false.

 

[irdeggman]

An Improved familiar can be a very worthy adversary. Only costs an extra feat.

How about a paladin's mount? or a druid/ranger's animal companion? They are very worthy combatants (usually).

Those that a bard "convinces" to accompany the party are most definitely "allies" in my mind. The DMG actually talks about this kind of "friend".

For the record I agree with moritheil on whether or not they "count" for xp rewards (i.e., they have their own CR).

 

[Warbringer]

Cast as a spell in combat, no.

As "companions" to the cleric, then they modify the EL as per DMG (can't be bothered to look for page)

 

[Dracorat]

All you people who are supporting the adds as being separate exp (even though thats against RAW) - would you award exp if the party cast Dispell Magic in an area and the mobs popped back to whence they came? (For that matter, would you even have them return to whence they came?)

 

[Klaus]

Dispel Magic has no effect on undead.

The point is, if the additional creature's presence doesn't stem from a diminishing of the main foe's abilities (like costing him a spell, feat, etc), they are worth their own XP.